Non-Counting Aspects of Counting

[SleightOfHand]

It is easily seen that increasing the effectiveness of a card counting strategy has a limit of profitability with severe diminishing returns. Other parts that effect the game include new dealers (more errors?), lazy (or whatever) dealers giving better pen, and quantity of players at the table. How much time should be spent scouting for these conditions for a 2-3 day trip in any given non-local casino?

[cardcounter0]

1. Penetration
2. Penetration
3. Penetration

[Sonny]

For a 3-day trip, spend the entire first day scouting. After that you should have a pretty good idea of what games to play, which dealers to look for, what opportunities to be aware of, what kind of action you can get away with, etc.

-Sonny-

[Mimosine]

Originally Posted by Sonny

For a 3-day trip, spend the entire first day scouting. After that you should have a pretty good idea of what games to play, which dealers to look for, what opportunities to be aware of, what kind of action you can get away with, etc.

-Sonny-

Sonny is a much more experienced player than I am, but on this point I think it largely depends on where you are. I recently went to reno for the first time for several days. My M.O. was as follows:
Go with a lot of knowledge of the place, rules, pen, heat
Go house to house looking for acceptable playing conditions given the guidelines above. Then sit down and play at the first acceptable game. The reason being, if conditions are good you should be playing, second you will not be able to figure out heat levels at a place until you actually sit down and play. Additionally, while playing you can determine if pen is consistent.

on short trips with lots of houses I go with a game plan in mind, then check the conditions, if good - play, if not go to the next house. I couldn't imagine scouting 10 casinos, taking notes, then deciding where to play, by that time you are on a different shift, having missed many playing opportunities. At reno I would play the same good games 2 times a day on different shifts... by day 3 i knew which houses to return to, which ones to avoid, several of which i never sat down to play.

if you are strictly looking for weak dealers, etc then I think Sonny's approach may have some merit, as if you are playing at a given house you could miss many pieces of recon....

[Sonny]

Mimo's plan works well too. As he said, it all depends on who you are.

If you find an extraordinary opportunity, by all means play it. It may not be there again tomorrow. If you see a dealer giving great penetration, don't just write it down in your notebook for tomorrow. Sit down and start pounding away!

It all depends on what you consider an extraordinary opportunity. For a card counter you are basically looking for great penetration with low heat. If you find it, play it. You can’t afford not to. You have to play as many hours as possible in order to overcome the short-term luck. Any wasted time is lost money.

For me, I like to look at the entire casino before I decide where to play. One hour against a trackable shuffle can be worth 2-3 hours of straight counting. One hour with a break-in dealer can be more valuable than 3 hours of card counting. One hour with some “interesting” cards can be worth 5-10 hours of card counting. One hour with a flashing dealer can earn more than 15 hours of card counting. The better the game, the more luxury you have in finding it. Suddenly you don’t need to worry about “getting in the hours” as much as “finding this trip’s meal ticket”.

The more places you look, the more things you find. I think most people would be surprised what is available.

-Sonny-

[SleightOfHand]

Originally Posted by Sonny

It all depends on what you consider an extraordinary opportunity. For a card counter you are basically looking for great penetration with low heat.

For me, I like to look at the entire casino before I decide where to play. One hour against a trackable shuffle can be worth 2-3 hours of straight counting. One hour with a break-in dealer can be more valuable than 3 hours of card counting. One hour with some “interesting” cards can be worth 5-10 hours of card counting. One hour with a flashing dealer can earn more than 15 hours of card counting. The better the game, the more luxury you have in finding it. Suddenly you don’t need to worry about “getting in the hours” as much as “finding this trip’s meal ticket”.

-Sonny-

Wow. I am still fairly new to counting, so I can't accurately shuffle track nor do I know the BS for knowing the dealer's hole card (although I'm sure a fair bit of it is common sense). I'm not sure what you mean by "interesting" cards though. Regardless, even the new dealer definately seems a lot more valueble than I thought. I remember reading a post with someone finding an incredible dealer that didn't know that you can't just split any hand (A8 and the like), which must have been AMAZING

So I guess in my situation, I'll get myself a subscription to CBJN and do some short scouting and play the games I can. Heat shouldn't be much of an issue as I am still a red-chipper. Gotta find the pennnnn

[rdorange]

Sometimes you just have to sit when you see something good and jump in. During my last trip to Laughlin, I scouted one day, only to find that the $5 min dd one day was $25 dd the next. I could have kicked myself for not sitting down when I already knew it was good.

[TheApprentice]

Originally Posted by Sonny

For me, I like to look at the entire casino before I decide where to play. One hour against a trackable shuffle can be worth 2-3 hours of straight counting. One hour with a break-in dealer can be more valuable than 3 hours of card counting. One hour with some “interesting” cards can be worth 5-10 hours of card counting. One hour with a flashing dealer can earn more than 15 hours of card counting. The better the game, the more luxury you have in finding it. Suddenly you don’t need to worry about “getting in the hours” as much as “finding this trip’s meal ticket”.

-Sonny-

What DO you mean by "interesting cards"?

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by TheApprentice

What DO you mean by "interesting cards"?

Sonny is a very brilliant player, and I doubt he is going to expand on that one

My Beast to you,
CP

[jaredmt]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

Sonny is a very brilliant player, and I doubt he is going to expand on that one

My Beast to you,
CP

if he doesnt, can some1 pm me? haha im curious to know what he means myself