Hi-lo betting spread

[takinfromindians97]

FIrst i want to say this site is great, everyone is so helpful and take time to answer questions i think that is great. My question is what kind of betting spread should i use for the hi-lo against shoes. I never used a balancd count but im swithching over to hi-lo. Any help at all would be appreciated, thanks everyone.

[hawkeye]

I never use anything higher than 1-8, but a few people on here have told me that's way too low. For my low BR and unit bet it is as high as I can go without having a very high ROR.

[takinfromindians97]

But what is the exact unit for each TC. i would imagine a 1-10 on 6 deck and 1-12 on 8 deck. Just at what TC should i up it each time.
Thanks

[Sonny]

It will depend on the rules of the game and your playing style, but here’s a generic 1:10 spread:

<2 = 1 unit
+2 = 2 units
+3 = 4 units
+4 = 8 units
>4 = 10 units (2x5 or 2x7 would be better)

If you are Wonging then you might use a smaller spread and hit your max bet later. Blackjack Attack has good information on bet spreads and lots of sim results for different spreads in different games.

-Sonny-

[Pwn]

Originally Posted by takinfromindians97

FIrst i want to say this site is great, everyone is so helpful and take time to answer questions i think that is great. My question is what kind of betting spread should i use for the hi-lo against shoes. I never used a balancd count but im swithching over to hi-lo. Any help at all would be appreciated, thanks everyone.

Have you read any books?

Pwn

[takinfromindians97]

exactly what i was looking for. As always i find it on this site quciker then anywhere. Thanks sonny!

[takinfromindians97]

Yes I have read alot of books but never really botherd with anything that had to do with hi-lo or balanced counts at all, I always skipped over those parts. Im gonna have to go back and go over them. I have a trip planned for this weekend and will still be using my unbalanced, so dont really wanna get to deep into it until after my trip. I would just like a few things to think about and start well starting my transistion.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by hawkeye

I never use anything higher than 1-8, but a few people on here have told me that's way too low. For my low BR and unit bet it is as high as I can go without having a very high ROR.

Its NOT "too low" but I can tell from your words that you have an underlying confusion about calc'ing spread. zg

[Pwn]

Originally Posted by takinfromindians97

Yes I have read alot of books but never really botherd with anything that had to do with hi-lo or balanced counts at all, I always skipped over those parts. Im gonna have to go back and go over them. I have a trip planned for this weekend and will still be using my unbalanced, so dont really wanna get to deep into it until after my trip. I would just like a few things to think about and start well starting my transistion.

- I am still learning as I am only on page 100... From what I understand even unblanced system still require a pivot point of zero, the way you figure that out is by subtracting the end count of the deck with zero ( i.e. - Red Seven you end up with +2 at the end of the deck and subtract +2 with zero you get -2 as your starting count ) ..... Now with that being said your pivot is obviously zero, correct? So you would be able to use the same spread as a balanced system

Once again I am not questioning you but rather questioning myself - Correct me if I am wrong because chances are I am.... Just want to see if I am understanding the material correctly and so on.....

Thanks and best of luck to you this weekend!,

Pwn

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Pwn

From what I understand even unblanced system still require a pivot point of zero, the way you figure that out is by subtracting the end count of the deck with zero ( i.e. - Red Seven you end up with +2 at the end of the deck and subtract +2 with zero you get -2 as your starting count ) ..... Now with that being said your pivot is obviously zero, correct?

Ugh. This is why I suggest everyone (a) start off by understanding a balanced count, and (b) really think about the math that goes behind the counts. Focus less on the process (what gets subtracted from what) and focus more on the fundamentals (what does what mean).

The pivot is defined from your initial running count (IRC). Your IRC is completely up to you to choose, which means your pivot can be anything. What is constant is the difference between the pivot and the IRC, which is always Decks*Imbalance. A lot of sites use U for imbalance (so I will too), but it's basically the difference between the number of low cards and the number of high cards in one deck. So for Red 7, U = 2 and the pivot for a 6-deck shoe is 6*2 = 12 higher than the IRC.

Now, where you start the IRC is completely up to you. It can be -12 (in which case the pivot is 0), it can be -10 (in which case the pivot is +2), it can be 0 (in which case the pivot is +12), or it can be +5,142 (in which case the pivot is +5,154).

Often the book advocates a specific IRC - so read BBiBJ carefully to see how Snyder defines his IRC. If I recall correctly, he defines the IRC to be -(Decks-1)*U, or for the example above, -(6-1)*2 = -10. This is done for a specific reason: because mathematically, at the pivot, the true count is equal to +U. That is, if you start your 6-deck Red 7 count at -10, whenever the RUNNING count is +2, the TRUE count is +2 and no deck estimation is needed.

Of course, you're free to start your count wherever you wish, but just remember that at your pivot, the true count is always +U. If you're counting a 13-deck game with a K-O (U = 4) count and an IRC of 69, you just need to remember that at your pivot (+69 + 13*4 = +121), the true count is +4.

Some people like to start the IRC higher so that the running count is always positive (many people have problems doing math with negative numbers). Some people like to start the IRC so that the pivot is 0. Some people like to start the IRC so that the pivot equals +U. Whatever you do, just remember that the pivot is defined from the IRC and the IRC is arbitrary, so read carefully. You are in for a world of hurt if you take advice to raise your bets at a RC of 0 or higher from a site where the IRC is -decks*U, and then mix it with advice from another site to start your IRC at 0.