Gm - rip

[glovesetc]

The overpaid and under performing CEO's appeared in D.C. begging for more money .That is hilarious ! Were they laid off ? Did they miss a million dollar paycheck ? The american taxpayer needs to say no to this bailout . Workers sweeping floors making $18.00 plus full bennies ! Pleaseeeeeeeee! So called skilled workers making $25.00 an hour , benefits, overtime, and perks . Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee! They make a lousy product . GM tried to tell us how much we needed trucks and SUV's that they must of started believing it themselves . 50 BILLION dollars these clowns are looking for . Sure the layoffs will hurt , suppliers will be crushed, suppliers who supply suppliers will be hurt as well! It is similar to a sinking ship - you need to know when to abandon ship . When auto workers are laid off the union gives them 95% of their base pay so they can lounge around and complain as well - lol! I am sorry your legacy bills are killing you like health ,pension , and other benefits . Maybe the braintrust should of stood up to the unions and said take or leave it guys this is all we can afford . Perhaps the executives should not of made millions and unlimited perks and benefits as well ! Plenty of blame to go around for all concerned. I mean should some factory worker who makes cars and screws bolts on a car make more then our teachers who need a B.A minimum and must get a Masters to get tenured as well . Police officers who guard our lives , homes, businesses, and families make less then the auto makers union guys . Enough is enough . GM's stock was halted briefly this morning and then continued its downward slide . Junk bond status is all their bonds are worth and there is NO BANK in the world willing to lend them anything ! That is a banks business so why should we the taxpayer finance them ? Build better products , listen to the consumer , and stand up to the unions ! Otherwise go to your death quietly!!!!

[callipygian]

The price of stupidity is failure. GM bet their entire company on low oil prices and skyrocketing SUV sales; they lost that bet, and now they're 10+ years behind the Japanese on technology (all GM hybrids use technology licensed from the Japanese).

Thousands of companies make bad decisions every single year. GM is no different from any of them.

[glovesetc]

Originally Posted by callipygian

The price of stupidity is failure. GM bet their entire company on low oil prices and skyrocketing SUV sales; they lost that bet, and now they're 10+ years behind the Japanese on technology (all GM hybrids use technology licensed from the Japanese).

Thousands of companies make bad decisions every single year. GM is no different from any of them.

Indeed buddy and now they can pay the price for their own stupidity and leave the taxpayer out of the mess . We have enough already !

[ChefJJ]

Originally Posted by glovesetc

Indeed buddy and now they can pay the price for their own stupidity and leave the taxpayer out of the mess . We have enough already !

That's a logical point of view...but there are a lot of jobs at risk, which will get some gov't cheese thrown their way. If any money is thrown at the Big 3, it should be part of that bailout for the financials service companies...why not, right?

[glovesetc]

Originally Posted by ChefJJ

That's a logical point of view...but there are a lot of jobs at risk, which will get some gov't cheese thrown their way. If any money is thrown at the Big 3, it should be part of that bailout for the financials service companies...why not, right?

They want 25 billion from the TARP and 25 billion from the fed . It has got to stop . How many people you know that went bust and nobody helped them . Give the money { a lot less} to the workers for training or send them all to college and let the companies go under . Sure it will be tough for alot but that is the way the cookie crumbles sometime !:

[InPlay]

I can see them meds are effecting your judgement or making you goofy. Better not hope for what you wish for. Usually it will bite you in the ass. Read on if you don't realize the impact on the USA them meds have effected your brain to think rationally.


Just what would it mean if GM, Ford, and Chrysler were left to their own devices and ended up failing completely? GM mused on the ramifications of such a possibility on their FastLane blog yesterday, and cited a study by The Center for Automotive Research that pondered the full or partial failure of the U.S. domestic auto industry that spelled out the potential effects to the U.S. economy. GM sounds this note of warning regarding its failure: "the reality may very well be that it does affect you."

The Center for Automotive Research found that if all U.S. domestic automaker operations were to cease in 2009, the result would be a loss of nearly 3.0 million jobs for the U.S. economy. Broken out, this would tally 239,341 automaker jobs, 973,969 indirect/supplier jobs, and "over 1.7 million spin-off (expenditure-induced) jobs." Without a degree in economics, I'm not quite familiar with spin-off (expenditure-induced) jobs...perhaps they mean dealer/sales networks and such. Regardless, the impact to an already-ailing U.S. economy would be horrific and could presumably continue the downward spiral of the U.S. economy into something resembling the great depression in the 1930s.

Commensurate decline in U.S. consumer income would total $398.2 billion over three years, they say, resulting naturally in decreased income taxes, lowered tax revenue for federal, state, and local governments, and further reduction of social security receipts. The Center says that these massive losses in the U.S. would extend also to Canada and Mexico, where significant auto production for U.S. domestic automakers occurs, damaging workers, suppliers, and economies in those countries.

Clearly, we all have a stake in the success or failure of these gigantic companies that play a significant part in the stability of our economy. GM is all but beseeching the new administration for continued support, and even today representatives of all three domestic automakers are back in Washington, asking Nancy Pelosi for yet more assistance than the $25 billion in low-interest loans that President Bush already signed off on.

Just how much help should the taxpayers provide to the domestic auto industry, gasping for air as it is? GM says in its blog entry: "Some of you have even expressed the belief that this is something GM and the US industry brought on ourselves, and that the domestic industry should be allowed to fail." That paints a very either/or scenario, but we think the truth lies somewhere in between.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler are certainly not blameless when it comes to the disaster they find themselves in, but yes, they are also victims of the current market and financial crisis as are so many other companies. The question remains: are the Big Three victims of market troubles that they themselves contributed significantly to (overstated vehicle values, low-buck leasing now coming back to haunt them, etc.), or victims of larger market forces they had little or nothing to do with?

[InPlay]

Some more reading for you. You as the goverment gets to pick up the pension that are being paid by GM if they go broke. Do some thinking first before you mouth is on overload. If you were in business you surely must know what this is about. http://www.pbgc.gov/about/about.html

By the time the BIG 3 dumps all the burden on uncle sam it could get very costly. $25/$50 bilion or even $100 billion will seem like chicken feed. Pucker up !

[InPlay]

Not my words I read this elsewhere how true these word are. As Americans we a stupid bunch with our own agenda. Open your minds. More then money at stake here !




I am wondering how the gloating media will be reporting one day when much of the US auto industry has become a memory and the key technologies are controlled by foreign owners who reap their profits for use elsewhere. Americans must then realize that they will no longer control their own destiny and will have to live with the consequences of that. The media will be delighted because it will have another negative, “told you so” story to report.

Having lived for much of my career overseas, I have never seen media anywhere lead the cheers over the demise of their national industries. The US is unique in that regard. Well, once you make your bed, you had better accustom yourself to sleeping in it.

[glovesetc]

Just my opinion is all buddy . Where is it going to end ? We can not bail every business out nor should we . The price just seems exhorbinant cause we know it is not going to end probaly at 100 billion . What about companies that do not receive help ? They will probably file a descrimination suit or something to that effect . It is just my opinion and it says on my med bottle do not drive but I can blog and have opinions while taking them - lol !

[InPlay]

Add a loss of 3 Million more jobs on this report and you will have instead of a recession a depression. It will be the straw that broke the consumers back and confidence. Things just got a way of snowballing and picking up steam.


AP

Jobless ranks hit 10 million, most in 25 years

Saturday November 8, 7:07 am ET

By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

Jobless ranks hit 10 million, most in a quarter-century; unemployment hits 14-year high

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's jobless ranks zoomed past 10 million last month, the most in a quarter-century, as piles of pink slips shut factory gates and office doors to 240,000 more Americans with the holidays nearing. Politicians and economists agreed on a painful bottom line: It's only going to get worse.

The unemployment rate soared to a 14-year high of 6.5 percent, the government said Friday, up from 6.1 percent just a month earlier. And there was more grim news from U.S. automakers: Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., American giants struggling to survive, each reported big losses and figured to be announcing even more job cuts before long.

Regulators, meanwhile, shut down Houston-based Franklin Bank and Security Pacific Bank in Los Angeles on Friday, bringing the number of failures of federally insured banks this year to 19.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. was appointed receiver of Franklin Bank, which had $5.1 billion in assets and $3.7 billion in deposits as of Sept. 30, and of Security Pacific Bank, with $561.1 million in assets and $450.1 million in deposits as of Oct. 17.

Barack Obama, in his first news conference as president-elect, said the nation was facing the economic challenge of a lifetime but expressed confidence he could deal with it.

"Immediately after I become president, I'm going to confront this economic crisis head on by taking all necessary steps to ease the credit crisis, help hardworking families, and restore growth and prosperity," he said after meeting with economic advisers in Chicago. "I'm confident a new president can have an enormous impact."

Wall Street revived somewhat after two days of big losses. The Dow Jones industrials rose 248 points.

Still, the Labor Department's unemployment report provided stark evidence that the economy's health was deteriorating at an alarmingly rapid pace. The jobless rate was 4.8 percent just one year ago.

About 10.1 million people were unemployed in October, the most since the fall of 1983. More people have jobs now, since the population has grown, but it's still a staggering jobless figure. With employers slashing jobs every month so far this year, some 1.2 million positions have disappeared, over half in the past three months alone.

Like Obama, President Bush expressed confidence that things would get better: "Our economy has overcome great challenges before, and we can be confident that it will do so again."

But economists were much less upbeat than politicians.

"There is no light at the end of the tunnel, and the outlook is pitch black," said Richard Yamarone, economist at Argus Research.

And Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist at the Economic Outlook Group, said the report "depicts an economy still in free fall and without a safety net anywhere in sight."

All the economy's woes -- a housing collapse, mounting foreclosures, hard-to-get credit and financial market upheaval -- will confront Obama when he assumes office in January. Unemployment is expected to keep rising during his first year in office, while record budget deficits will crimp his domestic agenda.

October's jobless rate was the highest since March 1994 and now has surpassed the 6.3 percent 2003 high after the most recent recession. The government also said job losses were worse than first reported for the preceding two months, 284,000 rather than 159,000 in September and 127,000 rather than 73,000 in August.

Many economists believe the unemployment rate will climb to 8 percent or 8.5 percent by the end of next year before slowly drifting downward. Some think unemployment could even hit 10 or 11 percent -- if an auto company should fail.

In any case, the rate is likely to move higher even if the economy is on somewhat stronger footing by the middle of next year as some hope. That's because companies won't be inclined to ramp up hiring until they feel certain that a recovery has staying power.

Joshua Shapiro, chief economist at consulting firm MFR Inc., said another reason the unemployment rate can keep climbing -- even after a recession is over -- is because people tend to flock back to the labor market when they sense their job prospects might be better. "It takes (people) awhile to figure out, 'Hey, there's jobs out there,'" Shapiro said.

In the 1980-1982 recession -- considered the worst since the Great Depression in terms of unemployment -- the jobless rate rose as high as 10.8 percent in late 1982 just as the recession ended, before inching down.

Friday's report was worse than analysts had expected. They had been forecasting a jobless rate of 6.3 percent with payrolls falling about 200,000.

Factories, including auto makers, construction companies, especially home builders, retailers, mortgage bankers, securities firms, hotels and motels and educational services, all cut jobs. As did temporary help firms -- a barometer of future hiring. All those losses more than swamped the few gains elsewhere, including in the government, health care and in accounting and bookkeeping.

Private companies cut 263,000 jobs, the most since the country was beginning to emerge from the 2001 recession. It marked the 11th straight month of such reductions.

The grim numbers spurred calls from Democrats on Capitol Hill to provide fresh relief. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Democrats, in a lame-duck session later this month, will push to enact another economic stimulus package of around $100 billion, possibly including provisions to create jobs through big public works projects.

Obama said if the session doesn't bring passage, the measure will be his first priority as president in January.

He has called for about $175 billion in new stimulus spending, including money for roads, bridges and aid to hard-pressed states. He wants a rebate of $500 for individuals, $1,000 for families and a new $3,000 tax credit for businesses for each new job created.

Workers with jobs saw only modest wages gains in October. Average hourly earnings rose to $18.21, a 0.2 percent increase from the previous month. Over the past year, wages have grown 3.5 percent, but paychecks aren't stretching far because high food, energy and other prices have propelled overall inflation at a faster pace.

The economy has lost its footing in just a few months. It contracted at a 0.3 percent pace in the July-September quarter, signaling the onset of a likely recession. It was the worst showing since the 2001 recession, and reflected a massive pullback by consumers.

As consumers watch jobs disappear, they'll probably retrench even further, spelling more trouble. Analysts say the economy is still shrinking in the current October-December quarter and will contract further in the first quarter of next year. All that more than fulfills a classic definition of a recession: two straight quarters of contracting economic activity.

"The U.S. recession is deepening," said Michael Gregory, economist at BMO Capital Markets Economics. The final quarter of this year is getting off to a "particularly ugly" start.

AP Economics Writer Christopher S. Rugaber contributed to this report.