Asm's effect on shuffle

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#1
Has anyone or does anyone who plays at joints that use these machines ever try to track shuffles that come from them? I go to different places and bj some have them some don't. It is of my oppinion that there is less bias in the deck when they use asms as opposed to hand shuffle. I know I have been told a thousand times that asms make no difference in deck composition but this is still haunting me. I can go to a place that hand shuffles and expect to see slugs of cards that can be recognized from a prior shoe dealing. I was playing heads up awhile back and a dealer dealt himself trip cards four different times to himself two different decks, I was amazed. blackchipjim
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#2
blackchipjim said:
Has anyone or does anyone who plays at joints that use these machines ever try to track shuffles that come from them? I go to different places and bj some have them some don't. It is of my oppinion that there is less bias in the deck when they use asms as opposed to hand shuffle. I know I have been told a thousand times that asms make no difference in deck composition but this is still haunting me. I can go to a place that hand shuffles and expect to see slugs of cards that can be recognized from a prior shoe dealing. I was playing heads up awhile back and a dealer dealt himself trip cards four different times to himself two different decks, I was amazed. blackchipjim
I was once playing a 4 deck game at a joint that has ASMs on a few of its tables.

I resplit 8's for 4 hands, my last hand got another 8 which I couldn't split. Fortunately I got a dealer bust and won them all..

The next shoe with those decks, I split 8's to 3 hands. Granted, tracking 8's has limited value... but I did hit my 12 vs. dealer 6 when I was expecting an 8, and sure enough.
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#3
blackchipjim said:
Has anyone or does anyone who plays at joints that use these machines ever try to track shuffles that come from them? I go to different places and bj some have them some don't. It is of my oppinion that there is less bias in the deck when they use asms as opposed to hand shuffle. I know I have been told a thousand times that asms make no difference in deck composition but this is still haunting me. I can go to a place that hand shuffles and expect to see slugs of cards that can be recognized from a prior shoe dealing. I was playing heads up awhile back and a dealer dealt himself trip cards four different times to himself two different decks, I was amazed. blackchipjim
Please distinguish which game you saw the trip cards, hand dealt? Also for clarity an ASM shuffles the cards from one shoe using an elevator type device while players play out the other shoe. A CSM continuously shuffles in the previous round of cards. I do not attempt to sequence or track either machine but am interested in any research on it.
BW
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#4
asm tracking

The asm was dual elavator one shoe in one shoe out. It was eight decks rules doa,spl3,aces only once. The repeated trip plays on two different decks made argument for exploitable conditions. Was this normal or just chance. I have never really had the notion to track shoes in asms believing they were too thorough in mixing cards. I have without math ability wondered if a person knew the algorythm for the machine if he could use this as chink in the armor so to speak. blackchipjim
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#6
good deck vs bad deck

I guess what I'm observing on the tables is wether the hands were played correctly the time before and the hand won (ie correct double,splits etc...) if they repeat. I don't really like to say stuff like that because I know better I think. I don't play enough asms to really get an accuarate sequencing of the cards. One thing that I have observed is that if a deck gets to a high count early in the shoe it will not dilute as much as one would think next time out of the machine. blackchipjim
 
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