Heat

[1357111317]

I have a couple questions about what to expect for heat. If you start off the shoe and bet the table max for 5 hands then go back to the table min for the rest of the shoe does that generate any heat due to the wild bet spread? Or what about 5 for the first couple hands up to 50 for the next couple, down to 20 for the next couple then back to 50 for the rest of the shoe? Or do casinos just love this because they know you aren't card counting if you are betting the max bet within the first 5 hands of the shoe?

[FLASH1296]

Let it suffice to say that if you are willing to bet the "Table Max" "off-the-top" frequently, surveillance will be obliged to do a "skills check" on you simply because of the size of your bet.

You proffered the odd notion of 'table max' betting for five consecutive hands. Even if you are well-heeled why would you be willing to PAY a stiff tariff to begin your session. It is a very unpleasant prospect to launch your session and (perhaps) losing an amount that may be all but unrecoverable due to its relative size. If you want to be a reckless gambler you are unlikely to find sympathy from this forum.

The floor person will presume that you may be wealthy enough to accept the "cost" of betting big when you cannot have an edge against the house.
They are not completely oblivious to the fact that IF you are planning on (soon) counting cards you will, in all likelihood, be seriously undercapitalized, rendering your Risk-of-Ruin absurdly high.

They will conclude that you're a fool or a degenerate gambler. There is a lot of overlap there. Why would you pay the prohibitive cost of such rash actions? There is simply no manifest benefit to you.

My suggestion is that you learn to bet modest but random sums like 2 or 3 units to begin and spread up & down from there. That is the best way to partially disguise your bet spread. Being an "Advantage Player" requires emotional control, discipline, and patience.

[1357111317]

Originally Posted by FLASH1296

Let it suffice to say that if you are willing to bet the "Table Max" "off-the-top" frequently, surveillance will be obliged to do a "skills check" on you simply because of the size of your bet.

You proffered the odd notion of 'table max' betting for five consecutive hands. Even if you are well-heeled why would you be willing to PAY a stiff tariff to begin your session. It is a very unpleasant prospect to launch your session and (perhaps) losing an amount that may be all but unrecoverable due to its relative size. If you want to be a reckless gambler you are unlikely to find sympathy from this forum.

The floor person will presume that you may be wealthy enough to accept the "cost" of betting big when you cannot have an edge against the house.
They are not completely oblivious to the fact that IF you are planning on (soon) counting cards you will, in all likelihood, be seriously undercapitalized, rendering your Risk-of-Ruin absurdly high.

They will conclude that you're a fool or a degenerate gambler. There is a lot of overlap there. Why would you pay the prohibitive cost of such rash actions? There is simply no manifest benefit to you.

My suggestion is that you learn to bet modest but random sums like 2 or 3 units to begin and spread up & down from there. That is the best way to partially disguise your bet spread. Being an "Advantage Player" requires emotional control, discipline, and patience.

I probably should have stated that I am doing other things aside from card counting. However I am just looking for what kind of reaction to expect from the pit.

Don't worry, I would never ever place a bet of that size unless i thought i had an advantage. Those bets would not be for camoflauge be instead they would be bets because the advantage is in my favor for those first five hands. Before you say that what I'm doing is simply voodoo I suggest you go read other portions of this forum, as most poeple know there are more ways that just straight card counting to gain an advantage.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by FLASH1296

Let it suffice to say that if you are willing to bet the "Table Max" "off-the-top" frequently, surveillance will be obliged to do a "skills check" on you simply because of the size of your bet.

You proffered the odd notion of 'table max' betting for five consecutive hands. Even if you are well-heeled why would you be willing to PAY a stiff tariff to begin your session. It is a very unpleasant prospect to launch your session and (perhaps) losing an amount that may be all but unrecoverable due to its relative size. If you want to be a reckless gambler you are unlikely to find sympathy from this forum.

The floor person will presume that you may be wealthy enough to accept the "cost" of betting big when you cannot have an edge against the house.
They are not completely oblivious to the fact that IF you are planning on (soon) counting cards you will, in all likelihood, be seriously undercapitalized, rendering your Risk-of-Ruin absurdly high.

They will conclude that you're a fool or a degenerate gambler. There is a lot of overlap there. Why would you pay the prohibitive cost of such rash actions? There is simply no manifest benefit to you.

My suggestion is that you learn to bet modest but random sums like 2 or 3 units to begin and spread up & down from there. That is the best way to partially disguise your bet spread. Being an "Advantage Player" requires emotional control, discipline, and patience.

Very well said, concise and to the point....spot on

CP

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by 1357111317

I probably should have stated that I am doing other things aside from card counting. However I am just looking for what kind of reaction to expect from the pit.

Don't worry, I would never ever place a bet of that size unless i thought i had an advantage. Those bets would not be for camoflauge be instead they would be bets because the advantage is in my favor for those first five hands. Before you say that what I'm doing is simply voodoo I suggest you go read other portions of this forum, as most poeple know there are more ways that just straight card counting to gain an advantage.

ST, i guess, huh. might maybe experience some pretty wild variance i guess.
i'm not sure how the pit would view it, if maybe they saw you hawking the table, or maybe you have a compatriot at the table calling you in?
way beyond me, just thought i'd chime in.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by 1357111317

I have a couple questions about what to expect for heat. If you start off the shoe and bet the table max for 5 hands then go back to the table min for the rest of the shoe does that generate any heat due to the wild bet spread?

Just find a table that has a min of what the max was at the table your talking about. Like if it was a $10-$1000 table find a $1000 min table.

Then just bet the min for 5 hands off the top and stop playing until the next shoe.

No heat at all for 5 min bets off the top. No wild spread. Problem eliminated.

Worst case, if, somehow, they eventually catch on by some wild chance and just can't take the merciless beating you've been giving them anymore, just sacrifice 10% of EV, more if you must, and pay a friend, heck, even a stranger, to make the 5 bets for you. By then, you'll probably be looking for a $5K min table anyway and paying people won't be that big of a deal.

[FLASH1296]

Kasi, That was a hoot and a half !

[1357111317]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Just find a table that has a min of what the max was at the table your talking about. Like if it was a $10-$1000 table find a $1000 min table.

Then just bet the min for 5 hands off the top and stop playing until the next shoe.

No heat at all for 5 min bets off the top. No wild spread. Problem eliminated.

Worst case, if, somehow, they eventually catch on by some wild chance and just can't take the merciless beating you've been giving them anymore, just sacrifice 10% of EV, more if you must, and pay a friend, heck, even a stranger, to make the 5 bets for you. By then, you'll probably be looking for a $5K min table anyway and paying people won't be that big of a deal.

I realize that you are making some kind of attempt to mock me. It was a serious question though. I just want to make sure nothing like that will generate any heat. The method I use I have a pretty good idea of where the good cards are and I will always try to cut them to the front of the deck. The method does work too; Last night I figured a series of 52 cards to be about -10 so i put the table max bet out (50).Turned out those cards were -7 so I was happy with that even though I think I hit 12-15 4 out of the 5 hands i played in that deck while the rest of the table hit the naturals and the twentys. That deck was also the second deck to be played. The hand before that the deck was positive so I bet 5. Will that wild spread generate any heat?

[johndoe]

I understand what you're saying; it's a legitimate question, but tough to answer, as it really depends on the "personality" of the store in question. If you're not making huge money, though, I would think that this kind of play wouldn't catch as much attention as a typical spread (high at end of shoe, for example). So I wouldn't sweat it too much at red-green anyway.

[josh3623]

Originally Posted by 1357111317

I have a couple questions about what to expect for heat. If you start off the shoe and bet the table max for 5 hands then go back to the table min for the rest of the shoe does that generate any heat due to the wild bet spread? Or what about 5 for the first couple hands up to 50 for the next couple, down to 20 for the next couple then back to 50 for the rest of the shoe? Or do casinos just love this because they know you aren't card counting if you are betting the max bet within the first 5 hands of the shoe?

Well, if you are card counting its a bad idea, because big bets will always bring heat. So they will check out your game. Heat is not a problem if you don't count cards, or participate in some other well known form of advantage play..
If you are not using some readily Identifiable and known form of advantage play, you will have to win lots of money over many many sessions, and spend lots of time at one casino on one shift before they ever start to think of banning you, even then they will probably think you are lucky, will want to get you to join the players club and offer you comps because they will want to get their money back.
In short if you aren't counting cards or shuffle tracking, tracking aces etc, you don't have to worry about heat. But if you do have some real form of advantage play, even if it is unknown, don't ever join a players club because then they will track all of your bets, so they know how much of a comp to give you.
if you are on a $5 dollar table and you drop a $1,000 bet, the whole pit is gonna be staring at you solid until you leave the table, and if your bets follow the count at all, you will be banned.
in order to avoid heat your bets should be in chips the size of the minimum bet. ie, $5 min red chips, 25 min green chips, 100min black chips, if you are at $5 table and you want to bet $50 you would be better off using 10 red chips then 2 green chips, most pits require the dealer to alert the boss if there is an upward change in the color of the players chips. At most pits if you are betting red chips and you throw in a green chips, the dealer will call it out and the pit boss may or may not saunter over to the table and check out your play.