strategy tables vs. BJ trainer?

[ctbjfan]

While practicing basic strategy with the blackjack trainer, I ran across the following hands:

10,4 vs. 10
The strategy tables say to hit, the trainer says to surrender. Which is correct?

4,2 vs. A
The strategy tables don't say anything explicit, but I thought a hit was implied. The trainer says to surrender. Which is correct?

Thanks for any and all enlightenment!

[Mikeaber]

I'll be interested to hear what the AP's say about this one. I'm sure that knowledge of the composition of the deck would alter Basic Strategy's "rules".

Straight Basic Strategy calls for surrender to 9,10,ACE if you have a 16 that does not consist if a pair of 8's (you split the 8's). You also surrender a 15 but only if the dealer shows a 10 (not a 9 and ACE as with the 16). In single deck games, the only variation is that you do not surrender a 16 against a 9.

On the 4-2 against an ACE "hint".....I've never heard that one. Again, it might be something dependant upon the count or the assumption that you will draw a face and not be able to surrender the resulting 16 after taking a hit.

There are a few places left where late surrender is still allowed, but they are becoming few and far between except in "circus games."

[KenSmith]

If the trainer advised making those surrenders, you must have selected Early Surrender in the rules. Early Surrender means you can surrender before the dealer checks for blackjack, and it is a powerful advantage for the player.

It's also quite rare. Only twice in my playing career have I played games that offered full early surrender. One was in Natchez MS, where the old Lady Luck Casino (now an Isle of Capri) offered this rule for a few months. In that case, the casino didn't even know they were offering anything out of the ordinary. They just misunderstood how late surrender was supposed to work!

The second time I played a game with early surrender was a promotion for a month in Las Vegas at the Boardwalk Casino. I don't think it lasted the entire scheduled month because the game was burned out by knowledgable players.

Back on topic, go back to the Strategy Trainer and be sure to choose Late Surrender instead of Early. The results will mirror the strategy charts.

[mdw]

I have two questions before we leave for las vegas this weekend. I am a little confused. I have been using the strategy trainer on this site since I joined. I consistantly seem to do better when I play 6 decks vs 2 decks. I know this is not correct that I should do better in a 2 deck game. Where I notice the difference is when I double down. It seems the double down just works out better on the 6 deck shoe with the trainer. I also seem to win about half the hands out of a 6 deck shoe and sometimes will be behind 10 to 15 hands on the 2 deck. Am I imagining things? My second question has to do with surrendering. Will I see surrendering along the strip and downtown and is it a sucker bet similar to insurance if I am flat betting? I just want to be ready. As always thankyou for everyone's patience. I will try to report on what rules I come across and where while there. I don't think the casinos would like me taking notes, so I will have to work from memory.

[Mikeaber]

Generally, you will not find "surrender" Downtown unless you get into one of the "circus games." I don't recall seeing it ANYWHERE downtown last week and weekend (May 11 - 15). I do understand that some of the clubs on the Strip still offer it.

In essence, flat betting, it is a good move and advantageous to the player to surrender a 15 against a 10 and to surrender a 16 (except a pair of 8's which you will split) to a 9,10,ACE.

[mdw]

Thank you mike, that is what I kind of thought, but wanted to ask to be sure. Any idea why I seem to do better with the strategy trainer with 6 decks vs 2? My understanding is the house advantage should be less on two decks. Probably just coincidence. I will find out this starting this weekend.

[Mikeaber]

Originally Posted by mdw

Thank you mike, that is what I kind of thought, but wanted to ask to be sure. Any idea why I seem to do better with the strategy trainer with 6 decks vs 2? My understanding is the house advantage should be less on two decks. Probably just coincidence. I will find out this starting this weekend.

You're asking the WRONG GUY about that mdw <LOL> I got my butt whipped on DD this past week at the Plaza. But you are correct, it should be a better game than 6-deck. What I've seen with DD is that without advantage play, it seems to have a lot more frequent swings between win/loss! Maybe you've just hit a series of shuffles that variance has turned in the favor of the house instead of you.