Holy H17 (also heat?)

I haven't been to Vegas in a while, but I finally have the opportunity to go. I consulted CBJN, and now recognize the horrors of all the H17's that have popped up this year.

I suppose better pen can compensate to some degree, but still. Looks like the usual big houses are all that's left with an "affordable" S17 shoe game with marginal pen on the strip.

Do they sweat small green action at these big places these days for, say, a 1-12 spread? I understand they may use computers to track ability, but I wonder if that's only called for at higher $.

Maybe it's time to play some DD for a change, or spend more time downtown.

Wear good walking shoes.

Yes, they sweat the green action, but your logic is flawed.
The DD games are where their surveillance is especially observant.
Play only shoes, and be a moving target,
Keep your sessions to less than an hour.

Thanks. Just to clarify, the move to DD was a hope to increase winnings, not because of heat (quite the contrary, I'm well aware!)

There are dealers who will give better penetration than CBJN would indicate; you just have to look for them. Wonging the shoe games is great if you can Wong without being obvious (and don't mind walking a lot). Hands per hour while Wonging is heads and shoulders above other locales because of the high density of tables with playable (albeit marginally) games.

Vegas also has a large number of "dealers dressed like whores" pits that open up on weekends. The women employed are obviously hired for their looks rather than their dealing ability, and frequently make mistakes, such as adding up 9 and 8 incorrectly. :laugh:

Ab-so-freaking-lutely. Had one deal herself to a soft 18 (maybe even 19, can't remember) and kept going...busted out and had us all blown away! :joker:

I'm having deja vu...I think I posted this before, but it was still mindblowing.

good luck

Using CBJN, you can find a good number of S17 DD games on the strip with .8or less decks remaining at the cut. Right now, even the good S17 games have $25 min. tables throughout the day and even into the evening at some. There are a few H17 with very good penetration, 70%. But even the H17, 60% are ok if you're patient and using a 2-10 or 2-12 spread. I think 1-12 would be more fuss than it's worth in DD other than dropping to 1 in very negative counts. Due to the availability of good games, I wouldn't spend any time on any DD with penetration less than 60% (.8 remaining), H17 or S17. I expect the $25 min for DD will be less available when traffic picks up.

Quite true; that's part of the reason I've stuck with shoe games; not having legal alternate identities I can use carries a fair amount of risk. Especially if I stay where I play.

The other reason is that I simply haven't practiced DD much yet; until I do I'll stick with the shoes, where I have 100% confidence.

But if I just walk into a joint, hit them on DD, and get thrown out, I don't see the big deal - I'm not even close to a regular player in LV (or anywhere compared to lots of you). I'm not sure how they'd be able to identify me, or if they'd bother doing much research at a green chip level. Seems pretty low risk to me.

True, but at this point in time, there are often too few 6D tables open to support effective wonging without becoming obvious. I suppose if one chooses not to use any camo whatsoever, it might draw attention at a DD game. But I don't think lower-level green chippers with a 1-5 or 6 spread are going to draw lots of attention at places with a $25 or $50 min. Of course, there are points for style. I sat next to a clean-cut young man wearing a baseball cap, a well-maintained sport coat, and a fixed gaze at the table. The PB paid more attention to him than me, even though my minimum was double his and he didn't spread enough to seem like a counter. But I'm increasingly convinced the main thing that matters, assuming you're not horribly obvious, is whether or not the pit asks the Eye to review your play after you leave following a good win.

" ... whether or not the pit asks the Eye to review your play after you leave following a good win."

The eye will run down your game if you win a lot OR if you play too long OR your max bet is high enough OR if you obviously move your bets with the count OR if you make aggressive plays like splitting 10's or doubling on soft 20.

Well, if you have problems finding 6D tables in general in Vegas, I'd say you have a very serious problem with more than just blackjack. :grin: Hopefully you meant "during the holidays the shoe games are packed".

yep

Yes, that's indeed what I meant by "at this point in time." With the slow traffic, the casinos I was in last week had very few of their 6D games open and those had reductions in the min., even into the evening hours. Consequently, the tables that were open were often full or near-full by mid-day. In the morning it was more sparse, but again, not many open tables.