A.C. casino Earnings [Cross-Posted]

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#1
http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)

This is the most informative webite imaginable. Be sure to bookmark it.

Be sure to follow this link. You will be glad that you did. Enjoy this link and LEARN from it.

It will show you the actual casino "hold" - that is their earnings by % of the money put on the table by the players - for each casino.

You may be amazed to see that the Tropicana actually LOST money at their baccarat game !

Wait until you see the absurd figure for Double Attack BJ !

See the differences in what percentage of the money different casino BLACKJACK tables are holding.

Can you even imagine a richer source of info' as to which casinos just may be offering the better BJ ?

Show this to your non-advantage player friends, pointing out the absurdly high 'hold' figures for "Carnival Games" like Pai Gow Poker.

http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)
 
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#3
FLASH1296 said:
http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)

This is the most informative webite imaginable. Be sure to bookmark it.

Be sure to follow this link. You will be glad that you did. Enjoy this link and LEARN from it.

It will show you the actual casino "hold" - that is their earnings by % of the money put on the table by the players - for each casino.

You may be amazed to see that the Tropicana actually LOST money at their baccarat game !

Wait until you see the absurd figure for Double Attack BJ !

See the differences in what percentage of the money different casino BLACKJACK tables are holding.

Can you even imagine a richer source of info' as to which casinos just may be offering the better BJ ?

Show this to your non-advantage player friends, pointing out the absurdly high 'hold' figures for "Carnival Games" like Pai Gow Poker.

http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)
Thanks for the link, that is a useful one.

Bah, Double Attack Blackjack, what an awful game! Horrible! No skilled player would even attempt to play that.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#4
Casino Revenue Obfuscation.

The casinos got away with NOT listing the 6 to 5 Single Deck games separately, in spite of there being an entry line for them.

This is to their benefit, (of course), as they certainly do not want to advertise what a virtual "goldmine" the (rip-off) 6 to 5 S.D. game is for them.

I would guess that the "hold" is somewhere around 32% - double the usual BJ hold.

Someone needs to complain about this clear obfuscation. [pun intentional]
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#5
FLASH1296 said:
http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)

This is the most informative webite imaginable. Be sure to bookmark it.

Be sure to follow this link. You will be glad that you did. Enjoy this link and LEARN from it.

It will show you the actual casino "hold" - that is their earnings by % of the money put on the table by the players - for each casino.

You may be amazed to see that the Tropicana actually LOST money at their baccarat game !

Wait until you see the absurd figure for Double Attack BJ !

See the differences in what percentage of the money different casino BLACKJACK tables are holding.

Can you even imagine a richer source of info' as to which casinos just may be offering the better BJ ?

Show this to your non-advantage player friends, pointing out the absurdly high 'hold' figures for "Carnival Games" like Pai Gow Poker.

http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/docs/2008/200811revenue.pdf (Archive copy)
Well, I didn't check your link but, the way I understand "hold" just means how much they retain from a customer's buy-in. Not really a lot to do with earnings.

Examples
I buy in for $100, win $5 and walk away. Their hold percentage is 100% but they lost money.

I buy-in for $100, play for 8 hours and cash-out $90. Their hold percentage is 10% even though their earnings are miniscule on the many thousand I wagered by then.

That kind of thing.

I've never understood the usefulness of the statistic.

Basically, I guess, it's the best they can do since they don't have a clue of total money wagered vs money lost or won.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#6
Flash,
This is the sort of thing that pisses people off. A day after another poster comes on here and offers this link, you put it up without attributing it to him. Instead, people thank you and you still don't mention that you are just copying what another person linked.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#7
The "hold" is a very important concept in "gaming" to understand if you are a casino habitue.

The charts, (that I provided a link to), tabulate the gross amount of money won/lost at each game, and the number of tables.

The "hold" is revealing because it is NOT based on a mathematical concept or metric such as the "House Advantage". Instead, it is based upon "facts on the ground" - that means real life results. To put it another way, it illustrates exactly what, in fact, actually happened to the patron's money during the course of play. Patrons buy in at the tables and eventually they leave those tables. The percentage of that money that they leave behind (that they lose) is the crucial number. It is indisputably factual, as opposed to merely theoretical.

To illustrate, lets extrapolate to the logical extremes. We will imagine two games that are offered to the public. Call them Game A and Game B. They both look like fun and you have a pair of benjamins "burning a hole in your pocket", as my grandmother used to say. In English that means you are eager to drop your coin on the felt without thinking too much about it.

For this thought experiment, you are forearmed with only two facts; the table "hold" for the games. You were told that the numbers represent what portion of their money the players (who have gone before you) have lost. Table A has a hold of 16% and Table B has a hold of 48%. Say what ?. The second game "holds" TRIPLE that of the the first ? You are still undecided as to what to play. Table A looks a bit intimidating. It is a card game. People, (some of them at any rate), appear to be looking at the numbers on the cards and thinking. They look serious. Hmmm. You are here to drink for free and to have fun, not to think. Table B looks like a party in full sway. Lots of laughing and hollering. That game also has numbers, only they are not on cards, they are on a big colorful noisy funny-looking wheel. That wheel looks like fun. You remember seeing those at a State Fair when you were a kid. You remember that clack-clack-clack sound. It was like a loud version of the rat-a-tat-tat sound made by the playing card clothes-pinned to the wheel of your bike. Ahh. Nostalgia.

That little voice in your head clears its throat and tries to be heard over the half-drunk revelers.
"Those 16% and 48% "hold" figures are representative of what happens to the money that the players bring to the table."
You'll be damned if you are going to listen to the sound of common sense. You all but say out-loud: "Shut Up !"
The damn voice rises an octave and the volume rises as well.
The persistently strident little bastard is now speaking in a more succinct manner. Time to listen up.

Table A KEEPS one dollar in every six.
Table B KEEPS one dollar in every two.

Table A is a "Blackjack" game.
Table B is a "Big Six" wheel.

Which game is "better" ? Hmmm.

If our intrepid day-tripper had been told what the "house advantage" or "e.v." is on these games - he would still need to be able to infer or compute what it would mean to the crumpled bills in his wallet; presuming that he did not feel that he is "fated" to either win or lose and such has been pre-ordained. Has he checked his horoscope today?

If the game with the "better" [less disadvantageous] e.v. is played at an extremely fast pace he is likely to run through his bankroll very quickly, even if the table's "hold" is (relatively) low.

Is there a slow game? What if the game has an inordinate amount of tied bets ("pushes") e.g. "Pai Gow Poker" ? He might be able to stretch his gambling dollar pretty far before he needs to visit the A.T.M. or go home.

That makes "sense" if winning is not a primary concern, but "making his money last" is. A similar logic is employed by some worshippers at the altar of The Church of Slot Machines. They realize that they have very little chance of winning, but they have "some" chance of winning a "life-altering" amount of money, and they get to play at whatever pace they choose.

"Different strokes for Different Folks."
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#8
W.t.f. ?

Shadroch,

You said:
"Flash, This isnnt the sort of thing that pisses people off. A day after another poster comes on here and offers this link, you put it up without attributing it to him. Instead, people thank you and you still don't mention that you are just copying what another person linked."

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

WHO POSTED THIS BEFORE ME?
 

nottooshabby

Well-Known Member
#9
FLASH1296 said:
Shadroch,

You said:
"Flash, This isnnt the sort of thing that pisses people off. A day after another poster comes on here and offers this link, you put it up without attributing it to him. Instead, people thank you and you still don't mention that you are just copying what another person linked."

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

WHO POSTED THIS BEFORE ME?
Are you using some kind of Jedi mind trick, FLASH?

/Sorry, couldn't resist
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#10
FLASH1296 said:
Shadroch,

You said:
"Flash, This isnnt the sort of thing that pisses people off. A day after another poster comes on here and offers this link, you put it up without attributing it to him. Instead, people thank you and you still don't mention that you are just copying what another person linked."

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

WHO POSTED THIS BEFORE ME?




Ethan started a thread posting this link on December 19th. Guess its all a coinkdink,eh?
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#15
Comparing the Tropicana's Revenue statements for Nov. and Dec., (with the advent of 4 deck games and the elimination of 8 deck games) we see the following:

Number of Tables dropped from 72 to 70.

BJ "handle" [money put into play] dropped from $18.8 to $17.3 million.

Earnings from BJ dropped from $2.573 million to $2.315 million.

The "table hold" dropped, [only slightly], from 13.7% to 13.4%

The decrease in hold was perhaps less than what one would expect following the improvement in gaming conditions. That is encouraging news for A.C.

The bad news is that The Tropicana needed to show improvement to their bottom line. They failed. The Total Casino Win dropped significantly - from $26,021,000 to $24,036,000. The of nearly two million dollars is a decrement of 7.6%

 

gibsonlp33stl

Well-Known Member
#16
FLASH1296 said:
Yes, I missed it.
I like Flash...but I must also comment on the absurdity that every post is in huge blue letters, except for the "yes, I missed it". I can just see a little boy looking down at his shoes admitting guilt to his mother for stealing a cookie with crumbs all over his face. No offense Flash, but just seems very ironic in a way. But more funny than anything else...
 

Cherry7Up

Well-Known Member
#17
FLASH1296 said:
Comparing the Tropicana's Revenue statements for Nov. and Dec., (with the advent of 4 deck games and the elimination of 8 deck games) we see the following:

...

The bad news is that The Tropicana needed to show improvement to their bottom line. They failed. The Total Casino Win dropped significantly - from $26,021,000 to $24,036,000. The of nearly two million dollars is a decrement of 7.6%

Does the total casino win (bottom line) normally drop between November and December anyway? A better way to evaluate the change in the games would be to compare year to year--how did he difference between Nov. and Dec. this year compare to the difference last year?
 
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