Overcoming CRoR??

[White Guy]

How do you old pros overcome CRoR?? The easiest method of course is to re-invest a % of your winnings in your BR while keeping your Bet spread the same. Do any of you have a plan and a number in mind for your CRoR? Have any of you gone bust after years of playing the same BR??

[Nazgul]

Is CRoR cumulative RoR? I haven’t heard that term before.

Most RoR formulas assume you will reinvest all of your winnings back into your bankroll. If you don’t change your betting pattern then your RoR will decrease as you win money. The cumulative part takes care of itself. If you don’t go broke in the beginning you probably won’t…unless you change your betting patterns.

[callipygian]

Assuming you're EV+, as a function of hands played, your ROR goes up until it a maximum, and then decreases. This is because at some point it's inevitable that your winnings will outweigh the swings you endure.

The maximum ROR that you will ever face is called your lifetime ROR. As you play more hands, your ROR actually goes down.

Oh, and yeah, ROR formulae are always based on 100% reinvestment into your bankroll. If you're not reinvesting 100% (for example, if you're living off of your bankroll), that can actually be treated as a net loss per hand (use the formula for replenishing bankroll but put in a negative replenishment number).

[moo321]

Originally Posted by callipygian

Assuming you're EV+, as a function of hands played, your ROR goes up until it a maximum, and then decreases. This is because at some point it's inevitable that your winnings will outweigh the swings you endure.

The maximum ROR that you will ever face is called your lifetime ROR. As you play more hands, your ROR actually goes down.

Oh, and yeah, ROR formulae are always based on 100% reinvestment into your bankroll. If you're not reinvesting 100% (for example, if you're living off of your bankroll), that can actually be treated as a net loss per hand (use the formula for replenishing bankroll but put in a negative replenishment number).

Which is why I've always argued that the ROR number people quote are completely meaningless.

Better to use risk of ruin vs. chance of doubling for most purposes.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by callipygian

The maximum ROR that you will ever face is called your lifetime ROR. As you play more hands, your ROR actually goes down.

Well, your lifetime ROR is a limit applying to losing orig roll assuming you play forever.

It will never go up or down assuming you play forever.

Your lifetime ROR from any point forward is constantly changing.

But, practically, like moo and nazgul suggested, if you double your orig roll, chances of losing from there forward greatly diminish.

If, at some point, you have lost half of orig roll, your lifetime ROR from that point forward is alot compared to original ROR.

The good thing is you can always measure your lifetime ROR at any point in time and go from there.

But, basically, like Nazgul said, if they don't get you early, they probably won't get you.

[White Guy]

Say you always keep the same BR and betting spread at an ROR<1% is your lifetime ROR for the original BR 100%? If you never re-invest and always spend your winnings you will eventually lose your original BR at some point even if you make 100 times it but never add to it? Makes sense but I never knew the ROR was always based on re-investment with the same spread and unit size. That would make it hard to be a full time pro. I guess being very selective and keeping an extremely low ROR from the start is the key.
Of course if you keep the same bet always and up your roll your ROR will be low. Thats no fun though I can see how risk of double v risk of loss would be appealing. How is that figured?? I think I may have to splurge on a sim this weekend.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by moo321

Better to use risk of ruin vs. chance of doubling for most purposes.

That's actually the lifetime ROR. You can prove this mathematically, but basically your biggest risk of going broke happens just before you're expected to double your bankroll.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by callipygian

That's actually the lifetime ROR. You can prove this mathematically, but basically your biggest risk of going broke happens just before you're expected to double your bankroll.

just before your expected to double your bankroll?
how so is that?

[moo321]

Originally Posted by callipygian

That's actually the lifetime ROR. You can prove this mathematically, but basically your biggest risk of going broke happens just before you're expected to double your bankroll.

Wait, what?

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by White Guy

Say you always keep the same BR and betting spread at an ROR<1% is your lifetime ROR for the original BR 100%?

Not sure I understand, if you start out with an ROR of less than 1%, you have a >99% chance of never losing your orig roll.

Originally Posted by White Guy

If you never re-invest and always spend your winnings you will eventually lose your original BR at some point even if you make 100 times it but never add to it?

Basically. Maybe alot depends when and how much of winnings, or net winnings, get re-invested.

Originally Posted by White Guy

Of course if you keep the same bet always and up your roll your ROR will be low. Thats no fun though I can see how risk of double v risk of loss would be appealing. How is that figured?? I think I may have to splurge on a sim this weekend.

Yes, if you always keep the same bet and win so much your risk is basically zero and you will win money forever, what fun could that possible be

Risk of doubling vs risk is a good thing to buy a sim for lol. The time factor enters into it too. 5000 hands, 5000000 hands? etc lol.

BVut double your roll and orig risk goes way down lol. Your orig 5% risk is now 5%*5%.