Vegas Trip

I will be taking my first trip to Vegas sometime within the next few months (February or March), a time period which I hope is strategically positioned to avoid the crowds around New Years and during Spring Break.

I will be traveling with a modest bankroll ($5k), so I hope to participate in the lower limit games not available in CT, which is where I play now. I am also hoping to play primarily 6 deck shoes, as my play is confined to 8 decks currently.

Does anyone have recommendations for casinos which would fit these criteria? So far, I've been scouring the Dec. '08 issue of CBJN to narrow down the intimidating selection, first looking at strip properties:

Circus Circus 1.7/6, $3 min, (h17 ds), -0.63 edge
MGM 1.5/6, $5 min, (h17 ds ls rsa), -0.46 edge
NYNY 1.5/6, $5 min, (h17 ds ls rsa), -0.46 edge
Sahara 1.6/6, $3 min, (h17 ds), -0.63 edge
Stratosphere 1.5/6, $5 min, (h17 ds rsa), -0.56 edge
Slots A Fun 1.5/6, $1 min, (h17 d10! ds), -0.82 edge
Tropicana 1.6/6, $5 min, (s17 ds ls), -0.33 edge

And that seems to be pretty much it for Strip stores that offer a) 6 deck, b) $5 or lower min, and c) less than a 1% disadvantage off the top (thus discounting 6:5). In the above list, the Tropicana stands out as having s17 and hence a slightly lower house edge, while Slots A Fun, although offering the cheapest game, has a whopping 0.82 disadvantage due to d10&11 only. The penetration seems to be pretty marginal across the board.

I will probably be staying on the Strip, but this is open to consideration - I'm traveling with a family member who has voiced a preference for a large and centrally located property (or in his words, "I don't want to stay in a dump" :laugh since he is older and doesn't want to go on any hikes (I am responsible for making the travel arrangements but luckily, he is covering the expenses).

Any input on suitable casinos from APs here, be they experienced Vegas weekend warriors or residents, is greatly appreciated!

It's kinda sad just looking at those games you posted:sad:even my local joint has better games than that.

My only advise to you:
1 Look for dealers who give great PEN.
Personally I'm very picky about that,won't even play if dealer cut 1.5 out of 6
1.3 or better is my cup of tea.:grin:
2 Wong,Wong,and Wong some more:grin:

Go get'em,my freind.

Wish you the best and bring home a:1st:

P.D.

Pelerus it would help in knowing if you are a counter or just a basic strategy player in choosing your games? If you do end up spending most of your time playing the 6 decker at the Tropicana then stay at either the MGM or NYNY which both are a quick cross over the bridge walk to the Trop. There is also a monorail stop at the MGM. They are both nice hotels.

What happened to the huge number of 6 Deck S17 DAS DOA LS RSA tables at MGM and Mandalay Bay? $10-$15 minimums during off peak times.

The MGM tables were switched to H17 back in September or October. Not sure about Mandalay.

This is essentially my advice. There are no good games on the Strip, but there's a ton of mediocre games. The MGM games are pretty much standardized at (6D, 75% pen, H17, DAS, DOA, RS, LS). PH, Tropicana, Wynn, and Venetian have approximately the same game.

Most other places in the country have a few casinos within walking distance and under 100 tables to cycle between; Wonging is great on the EV, but hands/hr plummets and your win rate is miserable. The Vegas Strip was made for Wonging - you're not going to make a phenomenal EV, but the number of hands/hr you can play is amazing, so your win rate is probably going to be the same as if you scoured the city for good DD games.

Wear your walking shoes, and stop to see the sights along the way.

I advocate staying on the Strip for a variety of reasons.

(1) The hotels are much nicer. For example, the non-smoking rooms don't usually smell like smoke.

(2) The amenities are incredible. Take advantage of the pools if applicable and shell out the extra money for some spa time.

(3) The people are more attractive. No offense to the people on this board who frequent Downtown, but I'd rather be looking at rich 20-something girls dressed to go clubbing.

(4) You'll probably end up spending a lot of time on the Strip anyway, so you might as well stay within stumbling distance of your room.

In terms of pure experience, I've got to say that no place beats the Bellagio. The only gripe I have about the place is that there's no casual dining options (e.g. light breakfast or quick lunch), but I usually walk over to the Caesars food court or Paris creperie. It's expensive, though, so check with whoever's paying.

In terms of quality per price, I recommend Paris. It's been a while since I stayed there (2003), but I got an incredible room for $79/night (plus a $20 tip to the front desk). Monte Carlo is a close second in this regard, but I end up playing there frequently so I don't stay there any more.

3 good off-Strip games

Yes I am a counter, and I have been making trips to CT for about a year and a half. I recently switched from Hi-Lo to Zen, and as I said I have played shoes exclusively thus far.

Also, have been going through CBJN some more, and even the off-Strip games appear to be fairly mediocre, with the exception of 3 casinos that jumped out at me:

1) The Plaza offers a 4 deck game with 0.7 decks cut off. This is the only 4 deck game that I saw in the entire Vegas section of CBJN! 0.7 cutoff seems to me to be excellent pen (only 17.5% removed). This looks too good too be true, given the games available elsewhere - what's the catch?

2) Bighorn offers a 6D game with an off-the-top disadvantage of only 0.25. In addition, BJ pays 2:1 when 2 or more players have it (not sure if this is already factored into the house advantage calculation, but I would think not).

3) Palace Station has a 6D game with 1.3 decks cut off, which jumps out in a sea of 1.5 and 1.6. In addition, they currently sport a side bet mentioned in the news section of CBJN which makes the game even more enticing, if it is still offered when I go.

Are these games good enough to warrant trips from a hotel on the Strip? If so, what is the best way to get there - taxi? The location of Bighorn is given as "North," Palace Station as "LV," and the Plaza "Downtown."

Probably not unless you increase your betting level. At $5 minimums, you're probably making $5-$10/hr, and a cab ride will be $20 one way. So, let's say you cab over and play 12 hours - half of your profit will be eaten by cab fare, and the games off the Strip aren't that much worse than the ones you've listed.

Plaza

Have read on more than one occasion about the heat at Plaza ?
Very knowledgable pb's ? Could some of the experienced Vegas AP's
comment ?

If you want to go downtown you can take the Duece for a couple bucks. Don't go for Four deck games though. Be prepared to play DD and SD. If you must play the 4 deck games, then you'll find the tables at the Vegas Club a little less crowded, but not cut quite so deep.

If I recall correctly, you had a $5k bankroll? Your risk will be a bit lower if you spread 1-8 on a DD or 1-4 and a SD than spreading 1 -16 on a shoe game. Something to look into before your trip. Of course you'll have to learn about hand held heat too. Good luck.

Bighorn is a rathole. Rarely more than one table open and its mostly $2-5 players. Another problem is that after the shuffle, they let a player pick a card. If its a face, they count out ten cards and bury them. If its an Ace, its 11. A five and they bury 5. They offered double on any three cards and late surrender in September. It's far north of the downtown area, perhaps on Cheyanne. Not worth the price of a cab from the strip. In fact, you could rent a car for several days for the same money. Rentals in Vegas are cheap.
I never pay more than $15 a day , and rarely that much. To get to PS and Bighorn, you might as well rent a car.

What about Escortez?

single deck and double deck games available for $5 the last time I was there, granted that was 2 years ago.

Yes the heat is high there and they have become more of a low roller joint over the last few years.

This is too good to be true, that game does not exist at the Plaza unless it is new. If you are not confined to playing just six decks there is some good single and double deck downtown at low minimums. I will be in Vegas this week and can update with new conditions when I get back.

$3 these days.

ST thats good news. Will be in LV myself around 1-26. look foward to your report. PM me/us if the news is something that is not for the board.

I'm not sure about the conditions DT Vegas now but in June when I was there the pen and heat was brutal. El Cortez was good as usual but you better be good at playing under the radar cause they watch everyone. I didn't see a 4 deck game at the Plaza but the 2d game was pretty good, having said that I got booted after about 25 minutes. Also got booted from the Western's 1d game, but I played there too long, so that ones my own fault. After being backed off from 2 places in 2 days I spent the next 3 on the strip and never got a 2nd look.
This was my 3rd trip to Vegas and always like playing DT and never got heat on the other trips.

In June you may have caught more attention because the movie paranoia was still a little high at that time. Other than that, those are two of the sweatiest places I've ever played.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I learned something about heat on that trip, to trust your instincts. I first got backed off from the Western and decided at that point not to play at the Plaza until the last day, because I was staying there and didn't want to get booted from my hotel room. Because I was staying there I had to pass the pit 3 or 4 times a day and noticed the large stern looking female PB look at me in a weird way, kind of like she got a little excited each time. On the 3rd night I just couldn't resist when going to my room. the DD game was wide open so I sat down played 2 hands and was asked to leave the table. I did play at the plaza prior to getting the boot from the Western but only about .5 hour. I don't think they had me pegged from the previous .5 hour of play. So that leads me to believe that they got a heads up from the Western. I did confirm from a big player from this forum that they are owned by same company and do communicate.

If that is how it really went down I'm a little surprised as I was only spreading $10-40 on the SD and 10-60 on DD.

One other thing is I remember being watched everywhere I bought in DT, even before getting booted from the Western. I think that the joints DT just had the" guilty until proven innocent" attitude at that time.

Yeah, the look from the pitboss would have been enough for me. It sounds like she recognized you from info sharing. Very interesting. I'm glad you shared that because up until now, I believed the Western was the ugly stepchild in that family.