Advantage in Manila?

[SuperTrump]

In Manila they burn six cards after reshuffling a new shoe. Then they burn a card before dealing every time, then put one card to the side before dealing themselves the second card. I have tried to figure out what strategy engine to use or even what their advantage is, but I can't tell. They do have early surrender against everything except an Ace. Oh... and its a NHC game too!

Any ideas? Also, is the only effect of burning SO many cards just reduced penetration or does it have a much more profound effect on counting?

[positivedge21]

I believe they mostly play pontoon over... so...

[Pro21]

You are correct in that it just makes the penetration very bad. There are no strategy changes due to the card burning but you do need the ES vs 10 strategy.

[Miguk]

At Hotel Stotensberg in Clark. They don't burn cards and you can also double any card -- unlike in Manila where it is 10/11 only.

[popcorn]

Originally Posted by SuperTrump

In Manila they burn six cards after reshuffling a new shoe. Then they burn a card before dealing every time, then put one card to the side before dealing themselves the second card. I have tried to figure out what strategy engine to use or even what their advantage is, but I can't tell. They do have early surrender against everything except an Ace. Oh... and its a NHC game too!

Any ideas? Also, is the only effect of burning SO many cards just reduced penetration or does it have a much more profound effect on counting?

What about the latetest casino that just opened? It might have better rules.

[QFIT]

Originally Posted by SuperTrump

In Manila they burn six cards after reshuffling a new shoe. Then they burn a card before dealing every time, then put one card to the side before dealing themselves the second card. I have tried to figure out what strategy engine to use or even what their advantage is, but I can't tell. They do have early surrender against everything except an Ace. Oh... and its a NHC game too!

Any ideas? Also, is the only effect of burning SO many cards just reduced penetration or does it have a much more profound effect on counting?

CVData supports six burn cards plus burning a card after each round. The burn before hole card is a new one on me. But, the effect is the same as reducing penetration with one caveat. True count calculation should take into account that fewer cards have been seen than can be measured by the contents of the discard tray. Of course number of players affects this estimate.

[popcorn]

Originally Posted by QFIT

CVData supports six burn cards plus burning a card after each round. The burn before hole card is a new one on me. But, the effect is the same as reducing penetration with one caveat. True count calculation should take into account that fewer cards have been seen than can be measured by the contents of the discard tray. Of course number of players affects this estimate.

In Manila, casinos don't use discard trays so IMHO u would need to do something similar to Edward Thorpe's complete count tracking the numbers of cards played on the able as a side count too.