Can KO's Running Count Be True Count Converted?

[Finn Dog]

Wondering if a KO running count can be converted to a true count (because of how it counts a 7 as +1 vs. Hi-Lo)?

1. Assume 6 decks with the standard IRC of -10.

2. Same question but for an IRC that's been adjusted to +10.

Thanks in advance,

FD

[Brett_Harris]

By the Unbalanced True Count Theorem:

Net unbalance per deck for K-O: U = +4

Therefore choose Initial Running Count (IRC) = - N_decks * U

Eg for six decks, IRC = -6 * 4 = -24

Unbalanced True Count (UTC) = IRC/(# decks remaining)

Now the Equivalent Balanced Count (EBC) = (K-0) - (U/4))/13 =

(-14,12,12,12,12,12,12,-1,-1,-14*4)/13

= approx (-1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, -1*4) [Hi-Lo]

Now UTC = EBTC - U, K-O(UTC) ~= Hi-Lo(TC) - 4

So if you have access to K-O true indices fine, otherwise since the EBC is approximately Hi-Lo (except for the 7's), take Hi-Lo indices and subtract 4 to give True count K-O indices.

For example, when the true count is zero for Hi-Lo, this corresponds to a UTC of -4. That is a neutral deck has UTC = -4, which is obviously true since at the beginning of the shoe, IRC = -24, UTC = -24/6 = -4.

Therefore all the Hi-Lo true count indices we know and love such as Insure at TC=+3, has a TKO UTC of -1. At the Pivot (UTC = 0), this corresponds to a Hi-Lo TC=+4.

Insure UTC >= -1 (TC=3)
Stand 16-10 UTC >= -4 (TC=0)

etc.. you get the picture.

All the same goes to betting.. if you only want to play in ADV>0 hands, this corresponds to a Hi-Lo TC of +2, so UTC >= -2. If you leave at TC=-1, leave at UTC=-5.

Cheers,
Brett.

Cheers,
Brett.

[Howie]

Hey.. another Noob here..

Sorry to intrude Finn Dog, but I have a quick question..

Whats the easiest out of Hi Lo and KO?

Ive heard KO is, but that true count stuff looks more confusing than the Hi Lo.. But then again running count looks more easier on the KO..

?

[jack,jackson]

Hey.. it's Brett Harris!!! Welcome

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Finn Dog

Wondering if a KO running count can be converted to a true count (because of how it counts a 7 as +1 vs. Hi-Lo)?

You can, but why would you want to do it? The big advantage of unbalanced systems is that you don't have to convert to a true count.

[Finn Dog]

Originally Posted by Howie

Hey.. another Noob here..

Sorry to intrude Finn Dog, but I have a quick question..

Whats the easiest out of Hi Lo and KO?

Ive heard KO is, but that true count stuff looks more confusing than the Hi Lo.. But then again running count looks more easier on the KO..

?

Howie,

KO is the easier count to learn and sims show "KO Full" to be as strong as Hi-Lo on multiple deck shoes. KO has three different levels of diffuculty: KO Rookie, KO Preferred, and KO Full (in that order). Go with KO Full.

FD

[Finn Dog]

Originally Posted by callipygian

You can, but why would you want to do it? The big advantage of unbalanced systems is that you don't have to convert to a true count.

I hear you--and I know it may seem contradictory to attempt such a conversion. My plan was just to do a true count conversion basically as a double-check just for betting efficiency on certain plays--vs. on playing decisions themselves.

I suppose this is my first attempt at slowly moving over to Hi-Lo from KO Full to see which I like better on 6 deck shoes. Any thoughts? I know the sims have them neck and neck; however, I understand one advantage of Hi-Lo is that it has a 97% betting efficiency (according to IA from Burning The Tables).

Thank you,

FD

[Finn Dog]

Originally Posted by Brett_Harris

By the Unbalanced True Count Theorem:

Net unbalance per deck for K-O: U = +4

Therefore choose Initial Running Count (IRC) = - N_decks * U

Eg for six decks, IRC = -6 * 4 = -24

Unbalanced True Count (UTC) = IRC/(# decks remaining)

Now the Equivalent Balanced Count (EBC) = (K-0) - (U/4))/13 =

(-14,12,12,12,12,12,12,-1,-1,-14*4)/13

= approx (-1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, -1*4) [Hi-Lo]

Now UTC = EBTC - U, K-O(UTC) ~= Hi-Lo(TC) - 4

So if you have access to K-O true indices fine, otherwise since the EBC is approximately Hi-Lo (except for the 7's), take Hi-Lo indices and subtract 4 to give True count K-O indices.

For example, when the true count is zero for Hi-Lo, this corresponds to a UTC of -4. That is a neutral deck has UTC = -4, which is obviously true since at the beginning of the shoe, IRC = -24, UTC = -24/6 = -4.

Therefore all the Hi-Lo true count indices we know and love such as Insure at TC=+3, has a TKO UTC of -1. At the Pivot (UTC = 0), this corresponds to a Hi-Lo TC=+4.

Insure UTC >= -1 (TC=3)
Stand 16-10 UTC >= -4 (TC=0)

etc.. you get the picture.

All the same goes to betting.. if you only want to play in ADV>0 hands, this corresponds to a Hi-Lo TC of +2, so UTC >= -2. If you leave at TC=-1, leave at UTC=-5.

Cheers,
Brett.

Cheers,
Brett.

Sorry, I'm still a little lost. Can someone tell me please (for 6D KO "Full" with a standard IRC of -20 that's been adjusted by 30 for an IRC of +10):

1. What does my IRC of 10 change to?

2. What does my Key Count of 26 change to?

3. What does my Pivot Point of 34 change to?

4. What do my KO "Full" Matrix values change to? (I'll give one as an example: Hard 16 vs. 8: stand at a RC of 46 or more.)

Thanks again,

FD

[nightspirit]

Originally Posted by Finn Dog

Sorry, I'm still a little lost. Can someone tell me please (for 6D KO "Full"):

1. What does my IRC of 10 change to?

Your IRC will change to 6x(-4)=-24

2. What does my Key Count of 26 change to?

Depending on the game you're playing you will probably raise your bet around a TC of -3 or -2. Your neutral true count is -4 that's approximately to a TC of 0 for Hilo.

3. What does my Pivot Point of 34 change to?

your pivot will be a TC of 0 that's equal to a +4 TC of Hilo.

4. What do my KO "Full" Matrix values change to? (I'll give one as an example: Hard 16 vs. 8: stand at a RC of 46 or more.)

I don't know if it's possible to transform running count indices into true count indices, better you use software to generate them.
You can take the hilo indices and subtract 4. I think that was suggested somewhere by Brett Harris. It will be a good approximation though Hilo doesn't count the 7 so some indices like 14 vs. 10 for example will be different. I will see if I find some TC indices for KO in my 'archive'.

[nightspirit]

okay, I found the indices but I have only the 'sweet 16'. maybe they are a help.