First day at the Casino counting cards....terrible day - need ADVICE!

Ok, so well first of all I'd like to introduce myself, names David just turned 21 (21? BLACKJACK!). Moving right along so, I learned about card counting just 2 days ago. It consumed me....I spent a good 10 hours in a day and a half learning, practicing, and meditating on card-counting. I took advice from mostly everyone and started with the Hi-Lo system in a matter of hours I was able to run through a deck in 35 seconds flat consistently with no errors. I was excited to say the least, so off I went to Barona my local casino located in San Diego. I viewed a few tables and started counting, did pretty well too. I decided to take a seat and play, well I was off to a very good start. My bankroll was 600, it was a 6-deck game, with a minimum of 5$. First round came up with a true count of around +0.6, off too the second with a -1 true count. Decided to try my luck elsewhere I was up $20 from pure luck and basic strategy. The fourth shoe in was when I finally got a +2 true count near the end of the shoe. I bet big and to my surprise, I won. I thought to myself holy s*#t this works. I was up $180, played for another 2-3 hours with no significant changes in my bankroll. Finally once again I had a true count of +10 there was about 2 decks left in the shoe and I had the running count at +19. So, I bet big $100 my cards were dealt 5-5 I decide to dbl down. "True count of +10?" I thought I'm bound to win with the dealer showing a 7. I get a 6....dealer flips over 17. So, $200 down the drain, next round the true count is +9. "I can't lose twice in a row with the true count so high." I put another 200 get dealt Q-9 (19? YES!) dealer flips over A-10. Ok, how unlucky I should have got that blackjack right? 3rd round true count is +4 or close to +4 as I remember. I have $400 left, I think to myself I can't lose 3 times in a row with a plus true count. Bet $300 I wanted my money back, I get K-3 for 13 dealer shows a Q, I hit and get a Q, busted........So, I know I probably did several things wrong here and I have a few questions. First, what betting strategy is there involved with counting? I basically just bet 5 when the count was neg or neutral and moved up to $30+ depending on the count when it was positive. Second, did I use the right system for this game? If not, what system should I use with a 6-deck shoe with the dealer hitting on soft-17/3-2 blackjack payout/hand shuffle? What did I do wrong or did I just get super unlucky? Do counting cards really even work in the long-run? I hear nowadays counting cards doesn't necessarily work anymore. Finally if I dedicate my time and effort almost fully into card-counting can I make a living off of it? Advice, criticism, insight is extremely appreciated. Thank You.

Yes you could,but it's hard as hell,you are better off go back to school and get a degree then find a 9-5 job.I'll bet you make more $$ that way.
Ohh,and you can sleep better at nights.

You just blew $600 for absolutely no reason,wondering what you can get for that 600???
A set of CV products(CVBJ,CVCX,CVDATA)less than $300
15-20 great BJ books...$200-250
25-30 decks of casino used playing cards...$50

Beat the casino at their OWN game.....PRICELESS!!!:laugh:

P.D.

Mhm

Well I am in school already, have a pretty good part-time job doing sales. And I blew $500 not $600 =) saved the last $100. Thanks for the Kelly Criterion info though. Oh, and now that you mentioned it what are the best starting books for card counting?

1) I don't think 2 days is enough practice. 35 seconds won't cut it when counting down a deck.

2) You just let your bankroll ride on 3 hands. That's not even close to the number of hands you need for the statistics to play out. You let your emotions get in the way when you bet that big and it hurt you a lot.

3) You gotta take insurance at such a high count. It's the most profitable deviation from basic strategy. At +3 or higher in a 6deck shoe, take insurance. That could have saved you a good chunk of your bankroll.

4) You are right to bet small in low counts. If the count is bad enough, you could consider leaving the table and just backcounting until the deck becomes positive.

5) http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=12863&highlight=profits

Making a living in blackjack seems rough to me.

Here:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2351
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2131

Don't chase losses with bigger bets than the count warrants.


Yesterday, I was playing a shoe that was deeply cut. There was about 1 deck left and the RC was +12. A count that high is rarely seen in a shoe game. Dealer had an Ace showing, so I took insurance. The dealer did NOT have a 10 underneath.

Moral of the story - you cannot predict wins and losses in the short term. Counting only works in the long term and you need an adequate bankroll to handle the ups and downs.

a) most importantly, overbetting. This is understandable, since you didn't do any reading up on betting. $600 isn't really workable as a "whole" bankroll, but even if it was your bankroll for just that trip, then you still wouldn't want a max bet over $50 or so.

b) Nasty losses in high counts are very common.

c) After only two days of practice, something may still have been off with your counting or your basic strategy. TC's of +10 are exceedingly rare.

Maybe you were just a bit lucky?

I say this because in 30+ years I do know that cardcounting works but I also know that in high counts you will have both your biggest wins and biggest loses because of your big bets.

The lucky part? With a triproll of just $600 you hit a high count, overbet your roll and hit a bit of negative variance. Overall, perhaps a very small loss to learn that overbetting could give you a very quick exit from the casino. Better to learn that now than sometime in the future where you might have much more money on you and make the same mistake.

Remember in cardcounting, you put out the big bets when the count is high but both you and the dealer have the same exact chance of getting the good cards. Your profit is generally made by winning your doubles and getting blackjacks but in this case that did not happen. Anything can happen for 3, 10 or even 20 hands. Blowing your trip roll because "I can not lose 3 in a row" will have you broke very often and you just might miss the shoe from heaven because you are out of money.

Start reading about ROR and bet sizing, practice, practice and practice and whle you are doing all this practice at home build a bigger bankroll.

ihate17

If I were you I'd try spreading 1-12 with $60 being your biggest bet. You were overbetting and basically "steaming". $600 for a trip BR is not enough to making $100-$300 bets.

Read upon betting strategy.

Try to get your speed down to 22-25 seconds per deck. Practice for 6 months at home with good BJ software like Casino Verite.

Make sure you know all your indices and basic strategy like it's second nature.

Read this several times.

As a beginner, you probably imagine that at a modest PLUS count you are favored to win your next hand. NOT SO.

You are slated to win money (only in the long run) due to the following:

You will get more blackjacks and better results with splits and doubles, and get more 20's when the count is high; NOT because you will win a majority of your hands. You won't !

You need to also understand issues of bankrolling your efforts.
If you are going to bet $100 a hand at moderately high counts, you will need to have thousands of dollars IN your pocket !

We use a concept of "Risk of Ruin" - basically the probability of losing all of our money BEFORE we double that bankroll. What we find acceptable is a subjective matter; but most pros try to keep that to single digits.

If you are inadequately bankrolled, (as you most certainly are), your chance of going broke isn't going to be much different than that of doubling your stake.

My advice is for you to Study and Practice. Not for a couple of days, but for a couple of months. Forewarned is forearmed..

My advice?

Format your posts with paragraphs, that makes it much easier to read.

I started with a $700 BR.

My max bet was something around $30 in a 6D shoe game similar to the one you play. 5-30 is a 1-6 spread, barely break even for a 6D game. but that spread, coupled with backcounting (every session) and exiting on negative counts allowed me to practice in a casino with low risk and slowly build my bankroll to the point where $30 is now a lot closer to my MINIMUM bet than my max.

You need to practice more. Think weeks not days.

If you decide to practice in a casino again, you should be flat betting, and maybe betting $25 if the count breaks TC +2 (with a trip BR of $400 for a 3-4 hour session). And you should be backcounting, and you should be leaving anytime the count hits TC = -1.5 or -2. Otherwise you will probably do the same thing all over again.

$30 max bet with $700 is a pretty high RoR. I started out similarly. $1000 Br spreading $5-$25 playing 6-8 deck game. Now BR is 20k and minimum bet is $25. I guess we were both lucky to not started out hitting bad variance, mimosine.

yes it was high ror, but it was replenishable and I had a new job with double the salary on its way at the time so I knew that if I lost $700 I could build it back. Ultimately I have deposited $2.4k over my first year's play to help build the BR to 5k quick (without ever bottoming out) - so that I could have a safeish ROR. I broke 10k this weekend and won't ever need to deposit another penny. I'm now at the point where a part of my BR is tied up in investments because having that much cash is unnecessary. I will never need more than 25% of my BR for any given trip...

yeah, we were pretty lucky. I've had a bunch of huge wins lately... i'm hoping EV doesn't catch up with me anytime soon!

Betting $300 with a BR of $600 is nuts. At a TC of 10 remember you only had an advantage of about 4.5%. Not really worth half your BR.

If you just want to play for fun to maybe win or lose with a replinishable BR I would wong in and out with bets of $25-$50 until you build it up to a few k. I still have yet to really set aside a specific BR but do okay just bringing a trip roll and consider it lost before I even get there. When I double up it is sweet and I have doubled a lot more than I have lost.

Also, read up on some money management and ROR.