Trip Report - Vegas

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#1
Just returned from Vegas on the red-eye to Boston Saturday morning and would like to share the results of my first trip out to the desert.

After arriving late night on Monday, I found myself, probably like most Vegas virgins, awed by the surreal nature of the Strip. After checking into my hotel on the south Strip, I walked slowly north in a dreamlike state induced by the sensory overload. Crossing over the pedestrian bridge from Excalibur to the Tropicana, I had to stop for about five minutes to catch my breath.

But then it was down to business. :whip:

Over the next four days, I frequented about seven casinos selected from CBJN for their lower minimums and reasonably good conditions. And the result was....

Trashed at the Tropicana,
Mauled at the MGM,
Vanquished at the Vegas Club,
Plastered at the Plaza,
Maimed at the Main Street Station,

and coolered and cold-decked at just about every joint I set foot in. For all that, I ended the trip with a measly $150 win, a very disappointing result for about 45+ hours of play. The worst was a loss of $600 in one shoe from Hell at the Trop (and I was only spreading to a max of $80 in that instance :eek:).

And aside from my first deep fried Twinkie :grin:, this trip held another first for me as well: my first back-off. I had just emerged from consecutive poundings at the Vegas Club and the Plaza and was steaming a bit when I entered one small casino in the downtown area with a somewhat deeply dealt double deck game. The lone blackjack pit had two active tables, and the double decker I sat down at was occupied by only one other player: a fairly consistent five dollar flat bettor.

I adopted an aggressive $5 to $60 spread, and after about 20 minutes I noticed a real old school, Al Pacino-looking pit boss replete with gold watch, bracelet and rings taking an active interest in our humble game. Despite having no real experience with casino heat, I instinctively tighted up my play under his scrutinizing gaze, lowering my spread and ultimately not raising my bets at all when he was there. I also employed several camo plays, such as betting $10 or 15 instead of only $5 off the top and waiting a round before raising my bet after a jump in the count.

After the first dealer returned following the rotation, I received my next warning sign: a "checks play" whenever I raised my bet by as little as even 25 dollars! I had never heard a checks called for that paltry a bet before. In hindsight, I believe that the boss was wise to me not raising my bet when he was present (at this tiny casino, he was also the overseer of the craps game!) At that point, I certainly could have left, and recognized that I probably should have, but I instead forged ahead - as much out of curiosity as anything else.

Toward the end, he returned following a checks call when I had a bet of $45 out. The count was +4, and the dealer turned over an ace while I had eleven. After pausing for a moment, I declined the insurance offer (the Zen TC for insurance is +5). She didn't have blackjack, so I doubled down (Zen +2 risk averse required for doubling 11vA) and nailed a queen for 21 and a 90 dollar win. I knew after him seeing that that my minutes were numbered :eek:, and sure enough another suit came into the pit soon after after and the two had a little conversation.

A minute or two later, the second more cordial suit nonchalantly said to me from across the pit, "We're going to flat bet you - five dollars per hand from now on." Looking at him quizically, he remarked, again good-naturedly, "We both know you're right on. We're not going to kick you out, but you can only flat bet from now on." And with a wink, "Or go to one of the other joints where you won't get caught." In spite of myself, I could only smile and say "I appreciate you not kicking me out." I played another few hands at $5 to return some of the respect he had shown me, and then made an uneventful departure. Overall, I think it was about as "nice" a backoff as one can get. And after being scrutinized by the first pit boss, I was just happy not to have been made an offer I couldn't refuse! :devil:
 

Sandy Eggo

Well-Known Member
#2
Wow, what an experience....I'm not sure I'd have kept my cool so well. Then again, I barely bet over $15/hand -- but I think they'd have harpooned on me with my Ace tracking as well...
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#4
Pelerus said:
At that point, I certainly could have left, and recognized that I probably should have, but I instead forged ahead
Welcome to my world.

The curiosity of "I wonder what they'll do this time" is the same curiosity that makes me a terrible poker player.
 
#5
Just curious, what type of spread you were using at MGM and Tropicana? Those are two of the places I plan on hitting on my next Vegas trip.
 

PrinceDragon

Well-Known Member
#6
Pelerus said:
Trashed at the Tropicana,
Mauled at the MGM,
Vanquished at the Vegas Club,
Plastered at the Plaza,
Maimed at the Main Street Station,
LMAO,Good one!!!

You made $3.33/Hr:(
No worries,Money will come,just stick with it;)

I adopted an aggressive $5 to $60 spread
That's a bit TOO AGGRESSIVE on a DD game,and in a SMALL joint???
Hahaha,you are a brave man.

I'm happy for you that you came home a WINNER :grin:and i'm sure you had fun besides BJ.
I haven't visit LV in a while,hopefully i can free up for a trip in the near future.

P.D.
 

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#7
aznaro said:
Just curious, what type of spread you were using at MGM and Tropicana? Those are two of the places I plan on hitting on my next Vegas trip.
At the MGM, the Trop, and the Stratosphere (the 3 six deckers that I played) I typically used a $5 to $80 spread.

However, on a few sessions I went from $5 to as high as $110 for a bold 1 to 22 spread. In those sessions, I employed significant bet camouflage, such as betting $15 or $20 off the top, particularly if I had ended the previous shoe with big bets. I also threw in plays like not reducing my bet size after a win, flat betting $15-20 until the TC went negative, and letting winning bets ride if the TC increased rather than counting out an exact amount to wager.

All those camo plays reduce EV, of course, but with a spread as wide as 1-22 I feel I am probably still beating a 1-12 or even 1-16 - and looking more like a gambler besides.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#8
Playing a shoe, with red chips, at nice joints (er, MGM, at least), a 22x spread doesn't seem inappropriate at all. Maybe even less cover (or more wonging) would have been called for.

Incidentally, if you were red chipping, then your EV probably isn't more than $5 or $10 per hour, so it sounds like your results are okay, especially if there was any "leakage" in your EV like tipping.
 

rukus

Well-Known Member
#9
EasyRhino said:
Playing a shoe, with red chips, at nice joints (er, MGM, at least), a 22x spread doesn't seem inappropriate at all. Maybe even less cover (or more wonging) would have been called for.

Incidentally, if you were red chipping, then your EV probably isn't more than $5 or $10 per hour, so it sounds like your results are okay, especially if there was any "leakage" in your EV like tipping.
rhino is right on
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#10
Yeah, if you're red-chipping a shoe game, 1-30 is entirely appropriate. I would be amazed if you got any attention on the strip doing that, as long as you didn't overstay your welcome.
 

nottooshabby

Well-Known Member
#11
Hey, congratulations on being up $150 . . . seriously, not being facetious here. Reminds me of the time I went to Vegas last fall. My plane landed right before 7, checked in to the hotel right around 7:30. After a quick bite I hit the stores around 8:30 PM. By 11 PM after 2 sessions I was down a little over 2 grand!! :eek: Three days later I left town up $155 and had never been happier in my life! Well, almost never happier . . . :)
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#12
Know your casino

Pelerus said:
At the MGM, the Trop, and the Stratosphere (the 3 six deckers that I played) I typically used a $5 to $80 spread.

However, on a few sessions I went from $5 to as high as $110 for a bold 1 to 22 spread. In those sessions, I employed significant bet camouflage, such as betting $15 or $20 off the top, particularly if I had ended the previous shoe with big bets. I also threw in plays like not reducing my bet size after a win, flat betting $15-20 until the TC went negative, and letting winning bets ride if the TC increased rather than counting out an exact amount to wager.

All those camo plays reduce EV, of course, but with a spread as wide as 1-22 I feel I am probably still beating a 1-12 or even 1-16 - and looking more like a gambler besides.


At places like MGM and yes, even the Trop, a spread of $5 to $110 will not really get you noticed except perhaps at the Trop if you got up a real significant amount. At those small places with DD games a spread of $5 to $60 will get you flat bet, backed off etc. So basically do not reduce your EV at a Trop or MGM red chip game. As your level of play increases you will get a feel for this.

ihate17
 

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#13
nottooshabby said:
Hey, congratulations on being up $150 . . . seriously, not being facetious here. Reminds me of the time I went to Vegas last fall. My plane landed right before 7, checked in to the hotel right around 7:30. After a quick bite I hit the stores around 8:30 PM. By 11 PM after 2 sessions I was down a little over 2 grand!! :eek: Three days later I left town up $155 and had never been happier in my life! Well, almost never happier . . . :)
This trip was somewhat strange - despite the consistent bad luck, I was never down by more than about $500 at any point, which made the lack of a comeback disappointing. Best to look at it in perspective though, as you said.

The most I was ever down was on one trip to Foxwoods, during which I blew through $1200 fairly rapidly before making a huge rebound to end the trip up over 1 grand. It featured one dream shoe in which not only I, but no one at the table could do any wrong. One gentleman bought in for $600 and ended the shoe with $5,400! :eek: The tray was almost empty (except for pinks) by the end, and I had made over $1200 in the rush.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#14
Pelerus said:
This trip was somewhat strange - despite the consistent bad luck, I was never down by more than about $500 at any point, which made the lack of a comeback disappointing.
If you were never dramatically down, and went home a winner, you did not, by definition, experience bad luck.
 

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#15
EasyRhino said:
If you were never dramatically down, and went home a winner, you did not, by definition, experience bad luck.
lol... I consider winning less than EV to be just as much a form of "bad luck" as losing - in which case you are still winning less than EV, and also happened to leave with less than you came with.

So I guess it is a question of just what degree of negative variance you consider "bad luck."
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
#16
EasyRhino said:
If you were never dramatically down, and went home a winner, you did not, by definition, experience bad luck.
You got that right. Bad luck is losing 12 out of 13 max bets at a true count of +8 and leaving almost all of your bankroll at a table. Ouch.
 
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