What penetration increase is needed for 8 deck to beat 6?

Assuming the same rules (e.g. h17, das), by how much must the penetration % improve for an 8D game to beat a 6D game? (Assume one plays all hands, uses the same spread--suppose a 1-20 spread if this makes any difference.)

For example, given six and eight deck games with the same rules where 1.5 decks are cut off in each case, which game would be better to play (six decks with 75% pen or eight decks with 81%)?

I think this might be the Monkey's favorite question in the world.

That's a great question! I'd like to know what the "experts" think. My guess, off the top of my head...14%. But I'm probably way way off.

Doesn't matter

If you are playing an 8 deck hit 17, just play perfect basic, because you sure as hell are no AP. :laugh:

CP

Here we go again....

check out the thread:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=12976&highlight=lied

BJC

"Blackjack Attack" has the answers in Chapter 10. A 6D H17, DAS game dealt to 4.5 decks using a play-all approach and a 1-12 spread yields a SCORE of 12.64, whereas an 8D game dealt to 6.5 decks using the same rules and spread yields a SCORE of 10.27. If you can find an 8D table cutting off only one deck, then you may do better than at the 75% 6D game as the SCORE jumps to 18.49 using the same spread.

Count

Not really, this is a newbie and I "think" you and others are ready to sing the glory of an 8 deck hit 17 game. An abomination... in reality.

CP

I also disagree with this statement, CP. In two weeks, I will celebrate the fifth anniversary of the day I quit my job. (march 3, 2004) Although, I am not getting rich, I have exclusively supposted myself playing blackjack during that time. Although, I am in vegas at the moment on one of my 2 annual trips, 90% of my play takes place in Atlantic City, much of it against 8 deck hit 17. I consider myself an AP. Small stakes AP, yes, but AP never the less. I can however, appreciate your point that there are much better games to be played and one should strive to find such. But if you are forced to play 8 deck, hit 17, either by location or bankroll, (many casinos offer S17 only to high limit tables) I don't think that disqualifies you from the AP world.

In the other thread, CP basically stated he was unwilling to Wong. Given that one can't/won't/don't Wong, I completely agree with his statements - 8D, H17 games are for chumps.

Kewl

Congratulations, you are a brave man indeed.

My suggestion, relocate so as to greatly improve your EV, and lifestyle.

CP

calli

Very true.

CP

Thanks Shabby, this was exactly the sort of comparison I was looking for.

Couldn't agree with you more.

You're the living proof of what can be done in AC. Of dealing with the game you have available in an AP way.

Sorry to read of your slow start in '09 but glad, and no surprise, it's not fazing you.

Good luck in Vegas.

thanx for the kind thoughts Kasi. That lesson about not being fazed by short term results, was a difficult one for me to master. One that can only be learned through experience. It takes a few times of going through extended bad periods, before you realize that it will all even out in the long run (just as the books say). You can read about it, but dont truely get comfortable until you have experienced it a couple times. And it always seems that it evens out quickly. Bad period of 6 weeks and then BOOM, extremely positive flux and your right back to where you should be. Personally, I have been lucky and never endured any extremely long losing periods. I wonder how I would handle 6 months to a year of bad results. would love to hear other peoples experiences with such.

Nothing personal CP, but I'd much rather be living in a place convenient to AC than your neck of the woods, which includes 4 of the 5 worst cities in America to live, in a recent survey.

The way the game is normally played these days, 10 cards. That includes Wonging out of bad counts. Don't use % to compare penetrations of different shoe sizes.

The H17 might change that slightly because you need more cards to be dealt out to overcome the house edge. But as count increases the difference between H17 and S17 decreases anyway.

In the case of the 6D and 8D games with 1.5 cut off, the 6D is definitely better. At 2 decks cut off 4D, 6D, and 8D are all around the same, and as the cutoff increases into really horrible pen the 8D EV is the highest.

Interesting

I grew up on a Native American Reservation, I know bad. Those cities...I go in them only when I HAVE too.

I was thinking he may like Nevada. Few have what it takes to handle living in my area. That is why so many run South in the Winter.

An AP in my area, that does not show the proper respect or gets out of line, could end up hurt, sad but true.

CP

Just curious----Detroit has to be one but what are the other three cities? I'm not sure but I don't think CP is a city dweller or even close. He is surrounded by beautiful natural scenery, wildlife, good bj games, etc.
Sure the winters are harsh but if you've grown up in that climate it's not a problem.
I envy the man.

Billy C1

IIRC, it was Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and I forget #5 (maybe St. Louis.) I read this on Yahoo about 2 weeks ago. Can't find a link now...

Grand slam (almost)

Just throw in my dump (Baltimore) and you have the entire AFC North! :laugh::laugh: