50 k br 6d??

W

White Guy

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
How would you play this game with a BR of 50 k?

6D
DAS DA2etc..
Early Surrender
Lucky Ladies
over 80% pen
H17

The spread is only $5-$200. I am trying to keep my ROR low and EV around $100 hr. Is it possible? I figured it was possible on a good DD game but I just found this one in SEA.. Is it even worth it in your opinion??
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
White Guy said:
How would you play this game with a BR of 50 k?

6D
DAS DA2etc..
Early Surrender
Lucky Ladies
over 80% pen
H17

The spread is only $5-$200. I am trying to keep my ROR low and EV around $100 hr. Is it possible? I figured it was possible on a good DD game but I just found this one in SEA.. Is it even worth it in your opinion??
Click to expand...
With a BR of 50k, you can spread a LOT more which could give you your desired EV. This is an excellent game and the fact that you are questioning the value of this game amazes me.
 
W

White Guy

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Oops I meant late surrender not early surrender.. Sorry.. I see what you mean I definitely wouldn't be asking if that were the case.. It is pretty much the .6 house edge H17 6d with okay pen.. That is why I am asking and the fact is I am not too informed on how the LL factors into it.. I try to either wong these type games or play better DD games but it is close.
Thanks For The Help
 
Pelerus

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
SleightOfHand said:
With a BR of 50k, you can spread a LOT more which could give you your desired EV. This is an excellent game and the fact that you are questioning the value of this game amazes me.
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I could be wrong, but when he says "the spread is $5-200," I think he may mean that the table minimum is $5 and the maximum $200.

Because I agree with you that questioning the value of the game he listed for any reason other than an artificially low maximum bet would be amazing.

To reply to the OP based on this assumption...

From CVCX assuming Hi-Lo Sw16/F4 (I didn't include early surrender or lucky ladies, and perhaps that may change things): the EV per hour seems to cap out at just under $90 in non-wonging play - based on betting $200 at any positive count and $5 on all others. For a $50k BR, this carries an RoR of 0.3%.

Introducing wonging, an hourly EV of $170 can be had by simply flat betting $200 and exiting on any negative count. Playing only positive counts of >=+1 increases the EV by...wait for it...42 cents! Perhaps more significantly, the RoR for wonging at +1 is 0.2%, while wonging only on negative counts renders 3.5%.
 
jimbiggs

jimbiggs

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Don't forget he can spread to two hands in positive counts. Spreading $25 to 2 x $200 and wonging he can probably achieve his EV goal and keep his ROR below .7% easily under good conditions. For me the question would be, how long will the casino tolerate his action?

Lucky Ladies probably won't add much in a six deck game, but I'm no expert. Snyder says it adds $6 per hour, but I don't remember how many decks he was talking about.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
jimbiggs said:
Don't forget he can spread to two hands in positive counts. Spreading $25 to 2 x $200 and wonging he can probably achieve his EV goal and keep his ROR below .7% easily under good conditions. For me the question would be, how long will the casino tolerate his action?

Lucky Ladies probably won't add much in a six deck game, but I'm no expert. Snyder says it adds $6 per hour, but I don't remember how many decks he was talking about.
Click to expand...
It also may benefit from some side counting.
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Pelerus said:
I could be wrong, but when he says "the spread is $5-200," I think he may mean that the table minimum is $5 and the maximum $200.

Because I agree with you that questioning the value of the game he listed for any reason other than an artificially low maximum bet would be amazing.

To reply to the OP based on this assumption...

From CVCX assuming Hi-Lo Sw16/F4 (I didn't include early surrender or lucky ladies, and perhaps that may change things): the EV per hour seems to cap out at just under $90 in non-wonging play - based on betting $200 at any positive count and $5 on all others. For a $50k BR, this carries an RoR of 0.3%.

Introducing wonging, an hourly EV of $170 can be had by simply flat betting $200 and exiting on any negative count. Playing only positive counts of >=+1 increases the EV by...wait for it...42 cents! Perhaps more significantly, the RoR for wonging at +1 is 0.2%, while wonging only on negative counts renders 3.5%.
Click to expand...
These numbers seem a bit high to me. Snyders frequency charts show someone using a 0-1 spread wonging to make about 1/4 unit per hour in a 6 deck S17 75% pen game. I think going from $5-200 draws more attention than back counting. I would hop in with 2 X 100 at TC 2 and 2 X 200 at TC 3 or more. Backcount side by side tables bet the lucky ladies above TC 9. This should keep you above $100/hr. Sometimes a low rolling joint is pretty clueless about card counting and you can last a while, but if the pit has a marginal idea they won't take this kind of play for too long. Luckily you've got lots of stores in SEA, so losing one isn't a big deal.
BW
 
W

White Guy

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Thanks For all the responses.

Yes I meant the total table spread is 5-200 not my spread. That is where the question comes into play. What could I actually do and get away with? I get the sense from my one time there that spreading from 20- 2x200 would get me booted. Wonging $170 hr is possible with a small team but I think the hands per hour in that figure is probably 3-4 times what it would most likely be for one person.

So it seems to me this game at $100 hr probably isn't doable without getting the boot which is pretty much what I figured. I guess I can just play it 'till they give me the heave ho or play 10-100x2 and maybe sneak a couple max bets out plus incorporate some phone call/drink/bathroom wonging also and be around 50hr with a very low ROR.. My only other option is not to play it.

Thanks
 
Mimosine

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
White Guy said:
My only other option is not to play it.

Thanks
Click to expand...
That's not an option! you've already got so much invested from us, people running sims, etc tisk-tisk!

It's going to be up to you to evaluate how well they will tolerate your action. I've been playing a lot of $200 max tables lately, and for an hour I can spread up into the $125 region (not a 6D game) without issue. I think going from $10 to 2 X 100 might draw some attention, but it's your casino, you should be able to figure this out very quickly. Wong into a shoe and bet black off the start or maybe 2-3 green to see what happens. If no one bats an eye, go at it, if they start asking for your name and pant size then maybe you're going to have to try a different shift.
 
W

White Guy

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Good Points.. Now that you mention it 10-2x100 probably looks worse than 2x 10- 2x125. The latter is what I am going to do I have decided but first I will wait till max bet time and wong in instead of starting off the top of a shoe with two hands of 10.
Thanks Again
 
jimbiggs

jimbiggs

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Just be aware of heat. If this is a small place with only one or two tables, they probably won't tolerate large action for very long. Don't forget to keep sessions kindof short. Don't visit too often. Maybe twice a month. If it's a larger place, then try to be there when they're opening up all the tables in preparation for a busy night. Sometimes there are a couple of hours before the newly opened tables fill up.
 
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