Negative HA game in Macau

[Mr. T]

Just returned from Macau. Surprised at the low HA in the casinos. Played in the Venetian, Wynn and Grand Waldo. Stayed in the latter and was surprised at the low prices. For this 4/5 star hotel I paid HKG$550 (US$70) which include breakfast. Since you get 2 breakfast coupons and one of them could be used for dinner instead, it means that you only have to pay for lunch.

Anyway the Grand Waldo has a promotional chip program whereby you get 0.8% cash rebate. I have played with promotional chips before and effectively you get half this face valUe i.e. 0.40%. Since the HA is 0.16% according to the Wizard of Odds the net HA is -0.24%. Did not try this offer as I was busy sightseeing and spending more time at the Wynn and Venetian to gauge what their Comps systems are like.

[StudiodeKadent]

Mr T,

Good to see you found the Macau rules pleasant. Im sure that promo at Grand Waldo was relatively short run but still its good you found a negative HA!

I know that at the Wynn, although they offer $100HKD tables, you have to play $200HKD minimums to get rated for any comps beyond drinks-while-you-gamble. So essentially, its the same minimums as the Venetian if you want to get comped a nice snack at Il Teatro (of course you can just spend any winnings, but that's beside the point). However, I'd take the Wynn over the Ventian even at those minimums since you can resplit aces at the Wynn. Plus the cocktails at Cinnebar are amazing (did you try any?).

Glad you had a good time!

[Mr. T]

Originally Posted by StudiodeKadent

Mr T,

Good to see you found the Macau rules pleasant. Im sure that promo at Grand Waldo was relatively short run but still its good you found a negative HA!

I know that at the Wynn, although they offer $100HKD tables, you have to play $200HKD minimums to get rated for any comps beyond drinks-while-you-gamble. So essentially, its the same minimums as the Venetian if you want to get comped a nice snack at Il Teatro (of course you can just spend any winnings, but that's beside the point). However, I'd take the Wynn over the Ventian even at those minimums since you can resplit aces at the Wynn. Plus the cocktails at Cinnebar are amazing (did you try any?).

Glad you had a good time!

I played HKG$100 BJ at the Sands in the morning for about 1 and half hours and got 2 points. When I went back after lunch there were only $200 min BJ so I went to play at the Wynn. I was told by the membership guy that with 3 points I can get a complimentary ferry ticket back to HK.

I played about 4 hours of $100 BJ at the Wynn and got 10 points. I was told if I have 30 points I can get a complimentary buffet dinner.

I am looking forward at their mailer to see what special they may have for overseas players. You never can tell with the recession/depression and the futher capacity coming on line a free 2 night stay would be of interest to me.

No I don't go for corktails. I drink some red wine. I say that I am not a Drinker or Gambler. But then I do not lnow what I am again.

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by Mr. T

I played HKG$100 BJ at the Sands in the morning for about 1 and half hours and got 2 points. When I went back after lunch there were only $200 min BJ so I went to play at the Wynn. .

I see. When I went to the Sands I didn't see a $100HKD Blackjack table... then again, I wouldn't play at the Sands since its ENHC (dealer takes everything) and the house edge is about 0.27%. Regardless, when I went to the Sands it was during the boom and quite busy.

I was told by the membership guy that with 3 points I can get a complimentary ferry ticket back to HK. I played about 4 hours of $100 BJ at the Wynn and got 10 points. I was told if I have 30 points I can get a complimentary buffet dinner.

I see. When I was at the Wynn, I was told that you have to bet $200 to get comped (and I was only there in January) but I see now you get points no matter how much you bet. Possibly this is due to the down-time in the hospitality market around Feb-March (coupled with the recession). But 3 points to get free tickets back to HK... thats a good deal.

[newb99]

Originally Posted by StudiodeKadent

. . . I wouldn't play at the Sands since its ENHC (dealer takes everything) and the house edge is about 0.27%.

If only. In the UK, even with the most liberal ruleset (DOA, DAS etc), the ENHC game for a six deck shoe has an EV of around -0.65%. Sums I've done show that even when counting and applying a 1-4 spread it's still a negative expectation game. 1-8 is slightly better than breakeven, but 1-16 spread is needed to give a reasonable long term return - about 2.5 units an hour.

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by newb99

If only. In the UK, even with the most liberal ruleset (DOA, DAS etc), the ENHC game for a six deck shoe has an EV of around -0.65%. Sums I've done show that even when counting and applying a 1-4 spread it's still a negative expectation game. 1-8 is slightly better than breakeven, but 1-16 spread is needed to give a reasonable long term return - about 2.5 units an hour.

House edges of 0.65% in the UK? Mon dieu, that's even worse than the house edge at my home casino in Australia! (which is roughly 0.57%). My condolences.

Although ENHC doesn't necessarily make the game unplayable (its only about 0.11% worse for the player than Late Surrender according to wizardofodds.com), when I can get a house edge less than half that (and better restaurants, bars and atmosphere) at the Wynn Macau, I'd take that over the Sands Macau. If you want my sources, see http://wizardofmacau.com/games/blackjack.html for the Sands Macau house edge (I should add, some of the data there is out of date, Wynn is now 6 decks rather than 4).

[mark.walters2]

Any shoe games in macau?

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by mark.walters2

Any shoe games in macau?

Nope. Its all CSM. Although at the Wynn they fill up a discard tray before placing the cards back in the machine (discard tray is 1 deck high) so basically it acts like a shoe with very poor penetration.

However, the house edges are so low that an accurate basic strategy player can comp-milk the casino very effectively.

[positivedge21]

Heard there are shoe games there now. Is it true?

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by positivedge21

Heard there are shoe games there now. Is it true?

I don't know I'm afraid. But I doubt it. Macau's been all-CSM for a very long time.