Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #1  
Old March 12th, 2009, 03:14 AM
RedChipper RedChipper is offline
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Default Indian Casinos?

I go to an Indian casino in Northern California every now and then just to goof around. I know the game isn't good, but it's the closest thing I got.

I've always thought in the back of my mind that the counts got high a little too often at this casino. But I figured that I was just remembering good counts.

But then one shoe, the TC rockets to +8 with a little less than 2 decks to go. It's the last hand before the cut card, and the dealer shows an 8. Of course I get a 16. I hit it since I don't know indices at that high a count. I get a miracle 2 and figure I'm about to push. The rest of the table also hits their terrible hands and for some reason they don't bust. Dealer flips over a 3 and hits to get that dreadful 21. The deck finishes at a +10 TC, and that's a fairly conservative estimate since the RC was +20 and there were about 1 3/4 decks left.

So,

1) Do you trust Indian casinos? Do you think I'm just getting some rough variance? I hear that +10 TC's are quite rare. And no, my count wasn't off. I'm 100% confident I can do +1/-1 in my head.

2) Would it be wrong to ask the dealer to show me the last 2 decks? I really wanted to ask but ended up keeping my mouth shut. You think they'd show me? They have ASMs so it's not like I could really use the info for the next shoe. Plus I was leaving anyways. I just really wanted to see if there were a ton of 10s and A's left in the shoe. And I really wouldn't care if I got banned from this particular casino.

Oh, I use hi-lo, it was a 6deck H17, DAS, NS, RSA
  #2  
Old March 12th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Blue Efficacy Blue Efficacy is offline
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They'll never show you the cutoffs. Don't bother asking, that will get you "made" as an AP very quickly, I would assume.

1.75 decks is a lot of space for some 10's and Aces to hide. Try to get there when they introduce new cards sometime. You'll most likely see that everything is on the up and up.

It's an H17 game with poor pen, they should be sensible enough to know they don't have to cheat to win. Key word, should.

Do you play there often enough to get statistically significant information regarding the number of positive counts?

I reiterate that a slug or two of big cards that made your RC +20 at the shuffle being behind the cut card is far from being outside the realm of possibility.
  #3  
Old March 12th, 2009, 06:01 AM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Default Blue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Efficacy View Post
They'll never show you the cutoffs. Don't bother asking, that will get you "made" as an AP very quickly, I would assume.

1.75 decks is a lot of space for some 10's and Aces to hide. Try to get there when they introduce new cards sometime. You'll most likely see that everything is on the up and up.

It's an H17 game with poor pen, they should be sensible enough to know they don't have to cheat to win. Key word, should.

Do you play there often enough to get statistically significant information regarding the number of positive counts?

I reiterate that a slug or two of big cards that made your RC +20 at the shuffle being behind the cut card is far from being outside the realm of possibility.
Blue,

Great post and you are right on.

Track that slug through the shuffle.

Alot to be learned from this thread if readers do more than just skim the surface, as you clearly have.

Look forward to seeing you at the '09 BJ BASH".

CP
  #4  
Old March 16th, 2009, 02:09 PM
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Finn Dog Finn Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedChipper View Post
1) Do you trust Indian casinos?
I've wondered about this myself, especially how it relates to backed offs? I understand that because you're on their sovereign land, they can even forcibly back room you and you have no recourse?

Best regards,

FD
  #5  
Old March 17th, 2009, 05:33 AM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Default My advice

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Originally Posted by Finn Dog View Post
I've wondered about this myself, especially how it relates to backed offs? I understand that because you're on their sovereign land, they can even forcibly back room you and you have no recourse?

Best regards,

FD
Behave, be smart, show respect.....and don't call us Indians

CP
  #6  
Old March 17th, 2009, 09:56 AM
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Finn Dog Finn Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
Behave, be smart, show respect.....and don't call us Indians

CP
Sir, your post is misdirected.

If you check my post it was actually a quote.

Last edited by Finn Dog; March 17th, 2009 at 10:02 AM.
  #7  
Old April 8th, 2009, 01:58 PM
gibsonlp33stl gibsonlp33stl is offline
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I agree with previous post. I'm assuming all casinos lay the cards out and go through them before they open the table...and then again when they close the table. Catch them at that point and it should be obvious that all cards are there...or aren't. Just be early enough to be there when tables close or open, watch them count out to see what you need to see.
  #8  
Old April 8th, 2009, 03:30 PM
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Mimosine Mimosine is offline
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while Indian casinos do have quite a bit of latitude, I do not believe that there would be no repercussions if they were to do something illegal, be it remove all my aces from a 6D game, or backroom an individual.

as others have said you can watch them change the cards.

I have played one casino that was accused of cheating by one of our members but didn't see the same behavior happening. I have never been to a casino that DIDN'T show all the cards to the entire world upon a change.

CP is right, you should mind your Ps and Qs, but there have been almost no reports of cheating or backrooming at Indian Casinos - to my knowledge. There has been a little show down between tribal police and local police, but it didn't seem serious enough to me...
  #9  
Old August 11th, 2009, 07:30 PM
picasso picasso is offline
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Default Akwesasne Mohawk Casino in northern NY state

Does anyone know what the rules are, the limits, number of decks and number of tables (and do they accept Canadian $ at par?) Thanks!
  #10  
Old November 21st, 2009, 08:50 AM
JackBlack11 JackBlack11 is offline
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They would never show you the cut, it would also be foolish to ask IMO.
I would monitor it over a time period. I too have a native casino near my house, there is some fishy stuff with regard to their poker tables and I have never seen slots pay out so poorly. Your best bet is to go with your gut, if it doesn't feel right your probably right
 

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