Why Pros are necessary

[paul6253]

I always wondered what I would say if I ever got backroomed and I thought this
would perhaps be inspiring to some of you.
The fact is this:
we are professionals. We are under a non-verbal, non-written contract employee relationship with the casinos. They pay us to be their endorsement.
Think about it. We are winners. We show the losers that the game can be beaten. For every one of us there is at least 100 other losers, losers who will
continue to lose over and over. Sure you got the high-roller who gets lucky and
wins a fat $250,000 , but he probably lost triple that in overall action. The
losers see us and are inspired, driven to win. They don't have what it takes to
be a pro, that's our job. Then you have the rest, the wannabe counters -- they
don't last long either. They watch a movie and think they can do it.
We work very hard to hone our craft and live the lifestyle we live. Just like
Hollywood actors we suffer greatly in many ways to have what we have.
Some of us pros don't live a glitzy life. I think the casinos should respect our
presence and realize what we do. The losers will lose more than we will EVER
win, and our little salary is the very small price the casinos pay to keep
the losers coming.
One last thing.
CSM and other anti-counter tricks is a bad idea. Even the non-counter knows
what a fair game is. The very allure of Blackjack- that it is a game of skill that
CAN be beaten is what drives people to play it. I'm very sure that if conditions become such that Blackjack has no earnings potential for the determined then word will spread and even the 'plopper' will find another game. The casinos will reap more financial reward by finding a happy medium and not tainting Blackjack. They have to leave the "option" or possibility that
"with skill" the game can be beaten. That's the meal ticket for all of us- it will
keep us winning and the losers losing. Ken Uston sort of hinted at this in His
famous book of which you all know. Anyway, I hope this brings some positive thought and feedback.
Regards,
Paul

[Automatic Monkey]

Your theory is correct, that the reason blackjack tables are usually full is that unskilled players believe they can do what we do.

But your reasoning is incorrect in believing that the casinos would ever respect us as employees. They treat their real employees like ****, for God's sake. I suppose if it wasn't for black people there wouldn't be a KKK either, but don't expect the KKK to start appreciating black people. The casinos hate us just because of who we are and that will never change.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by paul6253

We are under a non-verbal, non-written contract employee relationship with the casinos ... They pay us to be their endorsement.

Here is where your entire argument falls apart. Having an actual contract with the casinos may actually work - they pay you a specified amount of money, for which you return a specified service.

Having no contract makes that arrangement worthless. You may or may not tell your friends how much you've won, you may or may not teach them how to do what you've done, and you will withdraw an unspecified amount of money whenever you choose. There's nothing in there that's valuable to the casino.

The background of your proposal is sound - casinos do well to have winners yak about how much they won. But that's what free rooms and free buffets and match plays are about. The casinos already have a mechanism for exploiting this phenomenon, and it doesn't involve a player (caught or suspected of cheating) sitting in a backroom trying to talk his way out of the hole.

Originally Posted by paul6253

CSM and other anti-counter tricks is a bad idea.

I'm not convinced that CSM's are implemented as anti-counter measures. They're almost certainly meant to increase hands per hour; that they also foil card counters is a minor side benefit.

[bj bob]

Hmm, an interesting angle at least. I wonder what goes through the average ploppy's mind when one of us qualifies for the "wanna get away?" program the floorman greets us with along with the fabled phrase of "Your play is too good for us". I have personally never been at a BJ table when someone else got the "tap", but I can imagine the curiosity and befuddlement which must result throughout the table during and shortly after the cardcounter is escorted from the BJ pit. What do those people think at that point of time and what, if anything, are they saying among themselves?
It would seem to me that a backoff would be the topic of chit-chat for many hours throughout the "plopulation" and would indeed stimulate more play at least for a while.

[Finn Dog]

Originally Posted by paul6253

I always wondered what I would say if I ever got backroomed and I thought this
would perhaps be inspiring to some of you.
The fact is this: we are professionals.

Paul, remember you won't be back roomed for counting unless you voluntarily go with them--because casinos can't forcibly back room you--unless they suspect you of cheating.

If you're just using your brain--and if they physically take you anyway--you've got a lawsuit against them.

[FLASH1296]

"casinos can't forcibly back room you" ...

... is not correct if the casino in question is a Native American Casino.

Furthermore you have no recourse, irrespective of how you are handled.

[Slick Vic]

I've never been at a table when another guy was backed off, but I did see the pit boss issue the order to another suited guy in the pit "if that son of a b**** tries coming back here and counting again, his a** is grass." His face was turning red while he said it. I thought they might have been talking about me, but I figured it wasn't because I just sat down. I finished the shoe and went to the pit on the other side of the casino after that. The last thing I wanted was an already angry pit boss catching me counting.

For every dollar an AP wins, there's maybe at least 75 a civilian loses. Sure, there's a rare instance when a team of highly skilled professionals scores a major killing. But I still think the casinos would be so much better off trying to get more people at the tables than keeping away a few APs.

[Finn Dog]

Originally Posted by FLASH1296

"casinos can't forcibly back room you" ...

... is not correct if the casino in question is a Native American Casino.

Furthermore you have no recourse, irrespective of how you are handled.

Wow...that's right, I forgot, you're not technically in the United States when on Indian land, are you? You're in fact on sovereign soil...and they can practically do whatever they want with almost no repercussions?

[Katweezel]

Originally Posted by bj bob

Hmm, an interesting angle at least. I wonder what goes through the average ploppy's mind when one of us qualifies for the "wanna get away?" program the floorman greets us with along with the fabled phrase of "Your play is too good for us". I have personally never been at a BJ table when someone else got the "tap", but I can imagine the curiosity and befuddlement which must result throughout the table during and shortly after the cardcounter is escorted from the BJ pit. What do those people think at that point of time and what, if anything, are they saying among themselves?
It would seem to me that a backoff would be the topic of chit-chat for many hours throughout the "plopulation" and would indeed stimulate more play at least for a while.

"Plopulation." Nice one BJB

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Finn Dog

Wow...that's right, I forgot, you're not technically in the United States when on Indian land, are you? You're in fact on sovereign soil...and they can practically do whatever they want with almost no repercussions!

No. US and state criminal law are in full effect on Indian reservations, and don't believe them if they try to tell you otherwise. So if anyone assaults or detains you, call the police, and don't ever agree to deal with tribal police or magistrates.

It's civil law that is difficult to impossible to enforce there, so if you are injured or have your civil rights violated you will have little recourse after you leave.