Playing as a Pro

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by kewljason

From reading this threat, I've notice there seems to be a negative opinion of us grinders. 5 years ago, I became unemployed from my $13/hour job with about 5 grand to my name and have supported myself in "flashes" 25K-40K range ever since, while slowly building my BR so that this year I may break that barrier, and can continue rising towards the 6 figure range. I've had fun, made about the same money I was making and haven't been robbed at gunpoint as I was 3 times during the last year of my job. What's wrong with that?? I'm proud to be a grinder!

I have nothing against grinders, grinding it out full time means you have achieved a level of success that most AP's will never see. Not to mention most who try advantage play will fail, and those who don't, usually can't depend on it for anything but some recreational release and maybe a little money on the side. My point is just what you are making here, if you have the means and want to do better, why not? You aspire to make 6 figures, great, go for it. To wallow in a low income grind when it does not need to be that way, is in my opinion a form of sado masochism. There are exceptions to this of course. If you are already retired from some other form of working and have a pension or some other type of income supplementing your gaming income, there may be no need to make more than what is being referred to as the grind amount.

You say you are proud to be a grinder, well thats good. If you say that even 10 years from now I'll say you are a fool. When you take on the idea of playing BJ full time with very little money, it means one thing to me, you are not pulling your full weight in life. I may be wrong but you sound as if you're young and when you started this dream so to speak, you may not have been paying your own way in life soley on your income. Maybe you were, or are still living with your parents, and haven't really experienced the full brunt of the expenses it takes for a life beyond just existing. I will tell you this, never, never ever, will a $5000 bankroll cut it for fulltime BJ play while being able to support yourself. But being able to build on it while getting help is fine, and if you are getting to the point where the money is better and your bankroll is much bigger then kudos to you. But in my opinion being what is considered to be a full time pro means supporting yourself and not living off others due to lack of money.

All this means is, you're going in the right direction. Aspire to be more and at least try to achieve it. In any job, if you cannot make any measurable improvements in your salary or quality of life over a few years time, its a good idea to move on to a better plan. If anyone dedicates their full time to playing BJ, and still keeps the recreational attitude of all I need to do is practice and go count cards in the casino, they will most likely fail, or fall into the life of a grinder. I do more than just make enough to live on playing this game. Just eeking out an existence would not be satisfying to me. There are too many people that are unfortunate in this country that have no choice in the matter at the moment. But given the opportunity I'm sure they would jump at the chance to make a better way in life. In my opinion so should anybody, including professional BJ players.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

I have nothing against grinders, grinding it out full time means you have achieved a level of success that most AP's will never see. Not to mention most who try advantage play will fail, and those who don't, usually can't depend on it for anything but some recreational release and maybe a little money on the side. My point is just what you are making here, if you have the means and want to do better, why not? You aspire to make 6 figures, great, go for it. To wallow in a low income grind when it does not need to be that way, is in my opinion a form of sado masochism. There are exceptions to this of course. If you are already retired from some other form of working and have a pension or some other type of income supplementing your gaming income, there may be no need to make more than what is being referred to as the grind amount.

You say you are proud to be a grinder, well thats good. If you say that even 10 years from now I'll say you are a fool. When you take on the idea of playing BJ full time with very little money, it means one thing to me, you are not pulling your full weight in life. I may be wrong but you sound as if you're young and when you started this dream so to speak, you may not have been paying your own way in life soley on your income. Maybe you were, or are still living with your parents, and haven't really experienced the full brunt of the expenses it takes for a life beyond just existing. I will tell you this, never, never ever, will a $5000 bankroll cut it for fulltime BJ play while being able to support yourself. But being able to build on it while getting help is fine, and if you are getting to the point where the money is better and your bankroll is much bigger then kudos to you. But in my opinion being what is considered to be a full time pro means supporting yourself and not living off others due to lack of money.

All this means is, you're going in the right direction. Aspire to be more and at least try to achieve it. In any job, if you cannot make any measurable improvements in your salary or quality of life over a few years time, its a good idea to move on to a better plan. If anyone dedicates their full time to playing BJ, and still keeps the recreational attitude of all I need to do is practice and go count cards in the casino, they will most likely fail, or fall into the life of a grinder. I do more than just make enough to live on playing this game. Just eeking out an existence would not be satisfying to me. There are too many people that are unfortunate in this country that have no choice in the matter at the moment. But given the opportunity I'm sure they would jump at the chance to make a better way in life. In my opinion so should anybody, including professional BJ players.

I have just recently read the posts made by BoJack, mainly because of information given to me by someone I respect very much.

I am very impressed by BoJack and have to agree with all he writes, there is no BS or Bluster or Fantastic claims and he is dead on in this thread.

It is a pleasure and an education when you do indeed come across a person of this caliber and he decides to share with you his thoughts and knowledge.



CP

[Finn Dog]

There's been some great inspirational posts written here about stepping up in class by some great BJ minds (mine excluded naturally)...but does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of any solo pro who's still able to bet black in today's environment--or is that dream now in the history books as has been alluded to?

[kewljason]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

When you take on the idea of playing BJ full time with very little money, it means one thing to me, you are not pulling your full weight in life. I may be wrong but you sound as if you're young and when you started this dream so to speak, you may not have been paying your own way in life soley on your income. Maybe you were, or are still living with your parents, and haven't really experienced the full brunt of the expenses it takes for a life beyond just existing. I will tell you this, never, never ever, will a $5000 bankroll cut it for fulltime BJ play while being able to support yourself. But being able to build on it while getting help is fine, and if you are getting to the point where the money is better and your bankroll is much bigger then kudos to you. But in my opinion being what is considered to be a full time pro means supporting yourself and not living off others due to lack of money.

I thank you Bojack for your post. You are indeed an inspiration to some of us small time counters (grinders) working our way up. Just to correct a few things you stated or guessed at concerning my situation. I was kicked out of the house by my stepfather on my 18th birthday, which is why at age 20 and 21, I was working a very low level job supporting myself rather than attending college. (no, Prince Dragon it was not pizza delivery) Yes I was paying my own way, and fully supporting myself off that modest income. I wish I had a bankroll larger than $5000 to begin with but, it didn't work out that way, so I did the best I could and made barely enough money to support my self, and yes I do fully support myself. I have not "lived off others" since the day I turned 18. At that level it is difficult to get by, let alone build much of a bankroll, which is why it has taken 5 years for my bankroll to reach 30K. I am now able to spread green to black and hopefully the bankroll growth will progress a bit quicker. I tell my story, only to point out that why yes, It would have been great to start my career with a substantial BR and make 100K per year, not everybody is in the position to begin that way. Rest assured though, I will get there! But in the mean time I've been, and continue to be a grinder. As I have stated, I have higher aspirations, however, for those that are comfortable grinding away for a modest living permanately or supplementing their retirement, I see nothing wrong with that. It's admirable. Far superior to government subsidies.

[kewljason]

I almost forgot to announce my candidacy for grinders union president. Please send your campaign contributions and union dues promptly!

[shadroch]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

I have just recently read the posts made by BoJack, mainly because of information given to me by someone I respect very much.

I am very impressed by BoJack and have to agree with all he writes, there is no BS or Bluster or Fantastic claims and he is dead on in this thread.

It is a pleasure and an education when you do indeed come across a person of this caliber and he decides to share with you his thoughts and knowledge.



CP

There is a great post from a former doubter of BoJacks veracity on the Hit or Stand forum. It makes for great reading.

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by kewljason

I thank you Bojack for your post. You are indeed an inspiration to some of us small time counters (grinders) working our way up. Just to correct a few things you stated or guessed at concerning my situation. I was kicked out of the house by my stepfather on my 18th birthday, which is why at age 20 and 21, I was working a very low level job supporting myself rather than attending college. (no, Prince Dragon it was not pizza delivery) Yes I was paying my own way, and fully supporting myself off that modest income. I wish I had a bankroll larger than $5000 to begin with but, it didn't work out that way, so I did the best I could and made barely enough money to support my self, and yes I do fully support myself. I have not "lived off others" since the day I turned 18. At that level it is difficult to get by, let alone build much of a bankroll, which is why it has taken 5 years for my bankroll to reach 30K. I am now able to spread green to black and hopefully the bankroll growth will progress a bit quicker. I tell my story, only to point out that why yes, It would have been great to start my career with a substantial BR and make 100K per year, not everybody is in the position to begin that way. Rest assured though, I will get there! But in the mean time I've been, and continue to be a grinder. As I have stated, I have higher aspirations, however, for those that are comfortable grinding away for a modest living permanately or supplementing their retirement, I see nothing wrong with that. It's admirable. Far superior to government subsidies.

Congratulations to you, I wish you the best.

Just to make something clear on my point about grinders at a pro level. If thats what someone is comfortable doing and its not hurting anybody, great, enjoy. My issue comes with the blanket statement that grinding out a living playing is the ONLY way it can be done. That is false, and based on very limited opinion.

[kewljason]

yes, That is just flash's opinion. I'd still like to know where he gets his figures concerning number of AP's operating. I think his figure is way off.

[fifth]

Originally Posted by kewljason

yes, That is just flash's opinion. I'd still like to know where he gets his figures concerning number of AP's operating. I think his figure is way off.

Probably... How can someone know how many pro players are out there

[shadroch]

Originally Posted by fifth

Probably... How can someone know how many pro players are out there

By gaining access to Max Rubins super secret list of invitees to his BJ Ball.