Forget about the $5 table at the Borgata
- Thread starter Thunder
- Start date
Deterioration of game quality, what else is new?
I hope this move hurts them and they lose business over it but I'm not so sure I have to hope TOO much... it's only a matter of time. Harrah's casinos claim to fame is "We try to offer the lousiest game of blackjack in Atlantic City!" and informed players are starting to drop off from playing there. Trump Marina's 8 deckers, H17 with ASM's really turn them away so maybe Borgata wishes to do less business from a crummy game and they can duplicate this garbage heap so they will have less accounting work and can lay off some of the accounting dept.? hahaaaa
I hope this move hurts them and they lose business over it but I'm not so sure I have to hope TOO much... it's only a matter of time. Harrah's casinos claim to fame is "We try to offer the lousiest game of blackjack in Atlantic City!" and informed players are starting to drop off from playing there. Trump Marina's 8 deckers, H17 with ASM's really turn them away so maybe Borgata wishes to do less business from a crummy game and they can duplicate this garbage heap so they will have less accounting work and can lay off some of the accounting dept.? hahaaaa
Two guys are walking thru the jungle when they spot a tiger. The one guy says "Stand real still and he might not see us" "Screw that" says his companion, "I'm running for it". "You'll never outrun a tiger" states the first guy. His friend replies- " I don't have to outrun the tiger, I just have to outrun you"
Borgota doesn't have to offer a great game, they just have to offer a better game than their competitors.
Borgota doesn't have to offer a great game, they just have to offer a better game than their competitors.
Well I can recall a about a year or two ago when they had 6 deck games and were only cutting off one deck. Then it was a great game and that was before the Trop had their new games. The $5 game is nice because there are other +EV things besides counting available at this game, not to mention it allows you to absorb very small losses in bad counts since wonging is almost impossible there. Just because it's a $5 game, doesn't mean you have to bet $5 
There isn't that much. Pen trumps all.
When you're stuck in one of the marina stores, you're stuck with whatever pen they're dishing out that day. On the Boardwalk you can always find a dealer cutting down to a deck somewhere. That's where you want to be playing, I don't care if it's H17 or not. If you're not a high stakes player you really have no business playing any BJ game in AC without Wonging in.
Now show me a game that offers late surrender without making you jump through hoops and I'll be interested, but I'm certainly not interested in playing at Borgata or the Trop 4D games when they are cutting close to 2 decks.
When you're stuck in one of the marina stores, you're stuck with whatever pen they're dishing out that day. On the Boardwalk you can always find a dealer cutting down to a deck somewhere. That's where you want to be playing, I don't care if it's H17 or not. If you're not a high stakes player you really have no business playing any BJ game in AC without Wonging in.
Now show me a game that offers late surrender without making you jump through hoops and I'll be interested, but I'm certainly not interested in playing at Borgata or the Trop 4D games when they are cutting close to 2 decks.
If you have the choice between playing an 8 deck H 17 game with 80% penetration, you're telling me you'd choose that over a 4 deck game with 75% penetration?? (and yes that's what the Trop was offering when I was just there) I'm not even sure I'd take a H 17 game 8 deck game with 85% penetration over 4 decks since with the 4 deck game, you're likely to get + counts much more often. It's a lot more fun to play BJ too when you get to raise your bets more often because of + counts vs waiting 8 deck shoe after shoe for that one good count, even if it does last longer.
You also have a third choice. Play neither. I used to make a trip to AC every two or three weeks. Now I save my expenses and hit Vegas more often than before. Three days in a comped AC hotel runs $50. Roundtrip expenses are about $30. If I skip two trips, thats $160 towards my $200 airfare to Vegas, where three comped nights cost me zero. The difference is less than one big bet.
3rd choice
Airfare will run me about $225 from where I live. Add in the cost of traveling from the airport to the hotel and back as well and you're looking at $250 at least. Traveling expenses to AC and back costs me $14.50. I get everything else entirely free. In Vegas, I'd have to overcome $235.50 to make it worthwhile. I don't think I'd be able to do that unless I suddenly got a much bigger bankroll.
Airfare will run me about $225 from where I live. Add in the cost of traveling from the airport to the hotel and back as well and you're looking at $250 at least. Traveling expenses to AC and back costs me $14.50. I get everything else entirely free. In Vegas, I'd have to overcome $235.50 to make it worthwhile. I don't think I'd be able to do that unless I suddenly got a much bigger bankroll.
No never compare the penetration of different games by percents. If I had to choose between a 4D game with 1 deck cut and an 8D game with 1 deck cut, obviously I'd choose the S17 over the H17, but bigger considerations would be crowding, speed of game, heat. In a place like AC there is no benefit for a player with a small BR to sit down at the shuffle and start placing bets on -EV hands, so what a guy like you should be looking for are games that you can slip in and out of as you backcount. That way you won't be fretting about finding $5 and $10 limits, you can stalk a pit of $25 tables with empty spots and live a little when you get your count.
While 4D is going to be better than 6D which will be better than 8D mathematically, given the actual logistics of getting in and out of shoes, waiting for shuffles, moving around a casino, there isn't going to be much of a difference in a real session. What you give up in an 8D game will be made up for by being able to play 3-4 decks of the shoe with an advantage without having to get up and run around the casino to find another good count. Most of the disadvantages of 8D come from the additional -EV hands at the beginning of the shoe, but if you're not playing them it's not your problem. In short, you can convert any 8D shoe to a 4D game just by standing there and watching them deal out 4 decks.
While 4D is going to be better than 6D which will be better than 8D mathematically, given the actual logistics of getting in and out of shoes, waiting for shuffles, moving around a casino, there isn't going to be much of a difference in a real session. What you give up in an 8D game will be made up for by being able to play 3-4 decks of the shoe with an advantage without having to get up and run around the casino to find another good count. Most of the disadvantages of 8D come from the additional -EV hands at the beginning of the shoe, but if you're not playing them it's not your problem. In short, you can convert any 8D shoe to a 4D game just by standing there and watching them deal out 4 decks.
I totally understand your rationale for wonging but I guess in a place like AC where the tables are generally packed, I find myself on average waiting a fair amount of time to find a table with an empty spot that is just starting to deal out the next shoe. Then having to waste another 10 minutes or so counting the shoe which more often than not, won't be positive or at -2 TC (so I can leave),
is annoying. To add on to that, a lot of places don't allow mid-shoe entry for the $25 games. It seems to me based on experience, I will play more + counts/hr sitting at a 4/6 deck game with say 75% penetration (what difference does it make whether I say the % or actual decks cut off??), then trying to wong 8 deck H17 games. (There are very few S17 8 deck games left) It's also a lot less taxing.
Also take into consideration that you'll get zero comps by wonging so I'd be curious to see what the net winnings including comps would be for someone who is wonging H17 8 deck games with better penetration vs. the 4 or 6 deck games. It would be great if I could find empty 6 deck games at the $25 level with decent penetration, but do they exist in AC now?
is annoying. To add on to that, a lot of places don't allow mid-shoe entry for the $25 games. It seems to me based on experience, I will play more + counts/hr sitting at a 4/6 deck game with say 75% penetration (what difference does it make whether I say the % or actual decks cut off??), then trying to wong 8 deck H17 games. (There are very few S17 8 deck games left) It's also a lot less taxing.
Also take into consideration that you'll get zero comps by wonging so I'd be curious to see what the net winnings including comps would be for someone who is wonging H17 8 deck games with better penetration vs. the 4 or 6 deck games. It would be great if I could find empty 6 deck games at the $25 level with decent penetration, but do they exist in AC now?
yeah for sure, i just got back from the trop// i arrived sat night/sunday morning at 2:30- it was packed! one $15 game the rest $25 and up..By 4 there were some more $15 games, pen was usually around 75% a few less a few a bit more but mostly consistent..by 5 there were at least 5 $10 tables and i even found a few to play heads up..no $5 tho..