Minimum 6 deck spread

Dopple

Well-Known Member
#1
I have read you should have a 16x spread in 6 deck shoes.

What would be the minimum spread to succeed in a 6d DAS H17 shoe?

I am thinking you could do well with as little as 6x.
 
#2
Dopple said:
I have read you should have a 16x spread in 6 deck shoes.

What would be the minimum spread to succeed in a 6d DAS H17 shoe?

I am thinking you could do well with as little as 6x.
1-6 vs 6D/h17/DAS?

I wouldn't even try that, maybe a 1-10 but most likely 1-12. If I absolutely had to play that game
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
Dopple said:
I have read you should have a 16x spread in 6 deck shoes.

What would be the minimum spread to succeed in a 6d DAS H17 shoe?

I am thinking you could do well with as little as 6x.
Any precise figure such as 6X will likely be wrong because you have supplied inadequate information from which to compute an optimal bet spread.

I can say that 6X in a 6 deck game with H17 (and probably 75% penetration)
is, (at best), a "break-even" proposition. If there are profits to be anticipated, they will be microscopic

Firstly, the most crucial question is:

Do you have enough "units" in cash to be adequately capitalized ?

[At a more realistic 16X in a H17 6 deck shoe game you will need between 1,800 and 2,000 units. So ... for a $10 minimum table, that equates to having $20,000 to invest.
If you attempt this level of action with much less, (lets say $5,000), your "Risk of Ruin" could easily exceed a suicidal 40%]

More questions need to be answered:

Is there intense "heat" ?
What level are you considering playing at? $5, $10, $15, $25 tables ?
Heads-Up or crowded tables ?
Seven payers per tables (that are "managed to full") ?
Side bets to slow down play ?
What is the "penetration" ?
What "Risk of Ruin" are you comfortable with ?
Is your bankroll easily replenished or not at all ?
Are you using a strong count ?
How much real-time experience do you have ?
How accurate is your play re: bet-sizing and (memorized) B.S. Departure Indices ?

A H17 shoe game (without Late Surrender) and/or 90% penetration is a poor game; thus you will need a wide spread and a big bankroll.

That said, I will go out on a limb and state that 12X sounds like a reasonable spread. It is not, by any means, an "optimal" bet spread (computed with CVCX) - but it is enough to generate some reasonable profits - at least if the penetration is 83% or better.

If you want to play a safer spread that will at least "break even" while generating some valuable experience for you, use 8X.


 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#4
I'd generally shoot for 12x or higher. Or just wong in and/or out a lot.

After a while, the difference between a 12x spread and a bigger spread isn't that big a deal. If your max bet is $200, your min bet is $16 at 12x, or $10 at 20x. It's just splitting hairs, so you might as well go with the huge spread.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#5
Dopple said:
I have read you should have a 16x spread in 6 deck shoes.

What would be the minimum spread to succeed in a 6d DAS H17 shoe?

I am thinking you could do well with as little as 6x.
Well, attached is my usual spiel for a 6D H17 DAS game from Don's book.

For 4/6, 4.5/6, 5/6, 5.5/6 pen levels, $10K roll, Hi-Lo using I18. For 1-8, 1-12, & 1-16 play-all practical spreads that approximate a "Full-Kelly" roll.

Note, unit rolls vary from 667 units in the better pens to 2000 units in the worse pen levels. All with about same risk.

Note, none are 1-6 spreads but you could fool around with them if you want, especially if you actually use Hi-Lo with I18.

Note, just because it may be "Full-Kelly"ish doesn't mean it's reasonable lol.
To have a risk that makes sense to me, double the unit rolls but I'm not you and it ain't my money.

If back-counting, the world completely changes.

Doesn't mean you will come up with an optimal spread at 1-6 though.

Best is run your own sim for what you do. Or at least Powersim if it fits your counting system etc.

Even then, I wouldn't play 100 hands based on a Powersim sim. I'm a cheap-ass and Psim is free, but, even so, I do realize sometimes one gets what one pays for.
 

Attachments

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#6
EasyRhino said:
After a while, the difference between a 12x spread and a bigger spread isn't that big a deal. If your max bet is $200, your min bet is $16 at 12x, or $10 at 20x. It's just splitting hairs, so you might as well go with the huge spread.
If you call likely playing at greatly different risks to your roll, "splitting hairs".
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#8
FLASH1296 in his usual dogmatic style said:
A H17 shoe game (without Late Surrender) and/or 90% penetration is a poor game; thus you will need a wide spread and a big bankroll.[/FONT]
I would take an H17 game with 90% pen over an S17 game with 75% pen any time.
 

Billy C1

Well-Known Member
#9
Shop Hopping?

zengrifter said:
1-6 is A-OK for wonging (assuming its playable)
1-30+ is whats needed for play-all. zg
Wouldn't you have to do a lot of store hopping to play 1-30 spread. Can't believe you'll play-all very long with a spread that huge!

Billy C1
 
#10
Billy C1 said:
Wouldn't you have to do a lot of store hopping to play 1-30 spread. Can't believe you'll play-all very long with a spread that huge!
Thats not huge at all for low-stakes 6D play-all - your max bet would be 2x15. However if you use 2x8 (1-16) then you need to abandon some -count shoes (reverse-wong). zg
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#11
zengrifter said:
Thats not huge at all for low-stakes 6D play-all - your max bet would be 2x15.
Not to quibble too much but spreading to 2x15 is still a 1-15 spread in my world. And maybe the world of most sims?

A spread is, to me anyway, how much min-to-max is on your initial spot per dealer up-card.

Spreading to 7 spots at 15 units each will no more make it a 105-1 spread any more than, if betting just one spot, just because sometimes you may split to 4 hands and double each, would make your initial 1-15 spread a 1-120 spread.

None of which changes what one's ev etc is anyway lol.

It's never wrong to spread optimally to more than one spot as far as I know lol. More EV, more variance, same risk if done right.
 
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