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Blue Efficacy · #1 April 4th, 2009, 01:42 AM

I was playing a poor blackjack game briefly today at a place where they keep their own, just to see if conditions improved (and they have, marginally.) and i happened to be at a table with a george.

The dealer was so obviously giddy and excited it was nauseating. In the 20 minutes I was there she made probably $40.

This is why I agree with pooling tips. Otherwise it's all luck of the draw as far as getting a player who is foolishly loose with their money.

The dealer standing at the next table was bored AND going to be broke for the day.

Also, for some reason, I feel more comfortable giving tips when i am not directly giving them to that dealer.

Personally, I rarely, not never, tip. The smaller/dumpier the store, the more likely I will toke the dealer.

FLASH1296 · #2 April 4th, 2009, 08:52 AM

I utterly fail to comprehend what it was about the dealer earning $40 that bothered you.

I play at one place where the dealer's keep their own and I love it.

My default is lots and lots of small tokes.

If the dealer is slow or annoying or gives poor pen' I do not toke and I move on.

Blue Efficacy · #3 April 4th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLASH1296

I utterly fail to comprehend what it was about the dealer earning $40 that bothered you.

I play at one place where the dealer's keep their own and I love it.

My default is lots and lots of small tokes.

If the dealer is slow or annoying or gives poor pen' I do not toke and I move on.

Making that kind of money for unskilled labor is bothersome, but my main reasoning is she was so giddy and excited about it, it made the game extremely annoying to play at.

Call me an oddball, but I would much rather play at the store down the street with the dealer who looks like a robot and always looks like he is having fun swiping players' losing chips.

Preferable to dealers who feign "friendliness" so they can get their toke rate of $20 an hour.

Dealing is very much an unskilled job, and I have decided I will never toke again, unless it is some out of the way joint where the dealers might actually need my money.

Dealers are different than "service employees." They provide no service. They merely function as an intermediary between the player and house. The only way they can provide good service is to deal faster, and the fastest dealer can only deal so much faster than the average ones, anyway.

So, what is it that bothers me about the dealer making so much money? They make a lot more money than many people who provide a much more valuable service. They work 8 hour shifts, get plenty of breaks, in a secure, climate controlled setting. Tipping started as a superstition, foolish gamblers thinking that tipping the dealer would "help them get better cards." Since then it has become expected, and because of this socially expected overtipping, these dealers get paid obscene wages to fling cards around. Sure, you can say a good dealer enchances the gaming experience. But I am there to play cards, not be entertained by a dealer. If I want that, I could play 6:5 Dealertainer BJ at the Imperial Palace!

I bet for a dealer yesterday, and THE RAT BASTARD BASICALLY CALLED ME A CHEAPSKATE BECAUSE I DIDN'T TOKE ON THE DOUBLEDOWN BET.

That's when I decided that those vermin do not need my money at all. They make so much money from the suckers that throw out tokes, and yet they are still so ungrateful. Or if you're at a keep their own joint and there's a george at the table, they practically gloat.

That is my rationale behind what I stated, Flash. Agree or disagree, that's fine. We are all entitled to our own views on tipping.

FLASH1296 · #4 April 4th, 2009, 03:25 PM

I share SOME of your feelings.

For instance, I do NOT believe that tipping as a % of one's restaurant tab is appropriate at high-priced restaurants. Last week my wife and I were treated to a fine casino dinner by friends who were being comped, so, naturally, I payed the tip. The Tab came to $212. I tipped a $20 bill, but the service was spotty so I had an excuse. My wife quickly tossed a couple of red chips on top of my bill. The little girl waiting on us is a totally unskilled person and she is making a LOT of money.

In casino hotels I often ask the maids to leave extra coffee or to find me a robe, etc. I generally leave them $5 per day. I think that most people do not do so. I feel sorry for them as they are certainly being paid minimum wage.

If I have NO contact with the housekeeping staff I may leave a little less.

I drove a taxi in New York City full time for some 4 years. I provided fine skillful service that was efficient and polite. It was horribly stressful.

The facts are that BJ dealers in high class casinos can make between $25 and $40 per hour, but the vast majority of blackjack dealers earn one half of that.

Incidentally the term "TIP" is generally agreed to be a 19th century abbreviation for "To Insure Prompt Service"
To make matters worse in many countries the gratuities are mandatory and included in your bill in spite of the level of performance. In some countries tipping is rare and unusual.

As far as BJ goes, if the dealer is friendly and smiles etc. I will certainly put out frequent small tokes. It matters not at all whether the friendliness is "fake" Indeed, if one expects genuine joy then one may as well expect moans of pleasure from prostitutes and honesty from used car salesmen.

UncrownedKing · #5 April 4th, 2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Making that kind of money for unskilled labor is bothersome

This is America, the employee and employer get to decide who gets paid what, and, quite frankly, that is how it should be. The employee has x value to the employer, and gets paid a competitive wage based on x. If pay depended on how much "skill" you have or how much "skill" it takes to do your job, then people with PHDs and college professors would be among the top paying jobs in the country.

Many people will also argue that card counting or advantage play is "unskilled labor" and doesn't contribute to the society, and therefore not get paid a fair wage. But of course the MIT teams won millions.

This is why capitalistic-like societies are the best societies to live in.

Blue Efficacy · #6 April 4th, 2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncrownedKing

This is America, the employee and employer get to decide who gets paid what, and, quite frankly, that is how it should be. The employee has x value to the employer, and gets paid a competitive wage based on x. If pay depended on how much "skill" you have or how much "skill" it takes to do your job, then people with PHDs and college professors would be among the top paying jobs in the country.

Many people will also argue that card counting or advantage play is "unskilled labor" and doesn't contribute to the society, and therefore not get paid a fair wage. But of course the MIT teams won millions.

This is why capitalistic-like societies are the best societies to live in.

But advantage play is not labor at all. It is gambling.

You think it makes for a good society that overvalues some jobs but undervalues many others? That I cannot agree with.

I think Flash's 20 toke for his meal was perfectly reasonable. For me, as the price of a meal increases, the percentage of my tip decreases.

It takes no more skill to serve me lobster than it does to serve me a hamburger.

21forme · #7 April 4th, 2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Efficacy

I think Flash's 20 toke for his meal was perfectly reasonable. For me, as the price of a meal increases, the percentage of my tip decreases.

It takes no more skill to serve me lobster than it does to serve me a hamburger.

Try explaining that to a real estate agent

UncrownedKing · #8 April 4th, 2009, 03:57 PM

You are missing the bigger picture. Paying wages is based on a relationship between two people. Whether it be employee and employer, or the person receiving a service and the service provider. A wage is nothing more then a competitive price tag for a service. With tipping, it is the latter relationship, and the "customer" gets to decide what that waitress gets paid for servicing your food. No one else has the right to tell you "You must tip x amount" or "You need to tip x% of the bill." because it is your money and you are receiving the service The same goes for dealers' wages(not tips), the dealers are giving a service to the casinos. Therefore, the casino gets to decide the value he/she has to the casino, whether it be $50 an hour or $6 an hour. A customer cannot tell a casino what their dealers are worth to the casino, they can only tell the casino(or the dealer itself) what that dealer is worth to the customer.