Turnover in surveillance

[lucifer]

What is everyone's opinion on how long the average pig in the sky lasts before they burn out. I was a dealer for a long time, and i met dealers and rent a cops who used to do the eye and said it was boring as hell and quit. I check the classifieds sometimes and see ads for SURV all the time. I have always said the reason we can last at this game for decades is, whenver you get caught by the eye, chances are that guy wont be working there in 6 months. I have a feeling turnover is so great, it doesnt matter if you get 86ed.As long as you dont get caught everywhere you play, i think most of us can play forever as long as the games dont get worse.anyone agree. Would anyone like to share stories of people that they have known that have worked SURV and give their opinions.

[moo321]

I would guess it's pretty high, just like the rest of the casino. Probably not as high as dealers, though. Maybe 1-1.5 years average at a joint.

[ihate17]

I have always heard that the eye is about the most underpaid and understaffed department in a casino. If that is the case, then working in the eye probably becomes an in for someone eventually moving to another department.

ihate17

[callipygian]

My opinion is that you should quit referring to them, and thinking of them, as pigs.

Surveillance and security does a whole lot in a casino, most of which is beneficial to you. Ever hit a $1,000 jackpot and then hear the click of a revolver by your head? No? Thank security. Ever leave your chips at the table while you piss? Yes? Thank surveillance. Ever have a dealer turn their hands over as they're leaving the table and have chips fall out of their sleeve? No? Thank a pit boss.

Given the millions of dollars in cash that gets exchanged at a casino every day, the low level of crime is absolutely astounding. Take the money you wouldn't think twice about walking in a casino with, and walk around with that in any other part of the city you're in, and you'll quickly see what surveillance and security do for you.

That doesn't mean they won't stoop to power-tripping over AP's just because they've got 20 inch biceps and you've got an IQ above 20. But don't knock their achievements.

[takinfromindians97]

you guys crack me up here, instead of helping each other and just chillen making friends and learning new things about blackjack and other games, you guys always find the stupidest **** to argue about. Arent we grown men here i mean who cares if the guy calls them pigs, if he called your wife a pig ok im with you snap his neck but honestly. CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG HERE ON THE BLACKJACK FORUMS. Im going to start calling this place the battle of the blackJACKASSES forum, lol

[moo321]

Originally Posted by callipygian

My opinion is that you should quit referring to them, and thinking of them, as pigs.

Surveillance and security does a whole lot in a casino, most of which is beneficial to you. Ever hit a $1,000 jackpot and then hear the click of a revolver by your head? No? Thank security. Ever leave your chips at the table while you piss? Yes? Thank surveillance. Ever have a dealer turn their hands over as they're leaving the table and have chips fall out of their sleeve? No? Thank a pit boss.

Given the millions of dollars in cash that gets exchanged at a casino every day, the low level of crime is absolutely astounding. Take the money you wouldn't think twice about walking in a casino with, and walk around with that in any other part of the city you're in, and you'll quickly see what surveillance and security do for you.

That doesn't mean they won't stoop to power-tripping over AP's just because they've got 20 inch biceps and you've got an IQ above 20. But don't knock their achievements.

That's an interesting perspective. I actually have more respect for surveillance than most of the other employees. Apparently, a lot of these guys count cards on their days off.

[moo321]

Originally Posted by ihate17

I have always heard that the eye is about the most underpaid and understaffed department in a casino. If that is the case, then working in the eye probably becomes an in for someone eventually moving to another department.

ihate17

Non-revenue departments are usually underpaid and understaffed in most businesses. Really short-sighted if you ask me.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by takinfromindians97

you guys always find the stupidest **** to argue about

Maybe instead of interpreting everything as a personal insult, you should read between the lines.

(1) Your attitude towards surveillance has a direct impact on how you approach cover. The bottom line is that most people grossly overestimate surveillance interest in their play - a direct result of the attitude that all the pigs do is sit there and watch you. It's not true, and it leads to far more cover than is actually required.

(2) Your attitude towards surveillance also has a direct impact on how badly you will get backed off when you inevitably get backed off. If you have a profound lack of respect for what people do, you're more likely to turn a mild backoff into a physical brawl that ends your session in Clark County Jail.

(3) Your attitude towards surveillance also can help you appreciate what it is that pigs are really concerned about. You want to know what's really bad about holecarding? It's that from a surveillance standpoint, they can't tell whether the dealer is sloppy (a mild problem and one that the casino's fault as a corporation) or whether you and the dealer are colluding to steal from the casino (a serious problem and one that is your fault and the individual dealer's fault). If a casino could determine with 100% certainty that the former was the case, holecarding would be treated with a stern finger-wagging and a "shoo, shoo" the way low-limit card counting is treated.

People tend to live up to expectations - in a confrontation with security, if you think of them as ignorant goons who don't understand the law, they will act like ignorant goons who don't understand the law. They may very well BE ignorant goons who don't understand the law, but in every unjustified backroom story I've ever read, the main problem is that the protagonists always set themselves up in a situation where security has little reason to let them go and a lot of reason to probe further.

[moo321]

Originally Posted by callipygian

Maybe instead of interpreting everything as a personal insult, you should read between the lines.

(1) Your attitude towards surveillance has a direct impact on how you approach cover. The bottom line is that most people grossly overestimate surveillance interest in their play - a direct result of the attitude that all the pigs do is sit there and watch you. It's not true, and it leads to far more cover than is actually required.

(2) Your attitude towards surveillance also has a direct impact on how badly you will get backed off when you inevitably get backed off. If you have a profound lack of respect for what people do, you're more likely to turn a mild backoff into a physical brawl that ends your session in Clark County Jail.

(3) Your attitude towards surveillance also can help you appreciate what it is that pigs are really concerned about. You want to know what's really bad about holecarding? It's that from a surveillance standpoint, they can't tell whether the dealer is sloppy (a mild problem and one that the casino's fault as a corporation) or whether you and the dealer are colluding to steal from the casino (a serious problem and one that is your fault and the individual dealer's fault). If a casino could determine with 100% certainty that the former was the case, holecarding would be treated with a stern finger-wagging and a "shoo, shoo" the way low-limit card counting is treated.

People tend to live up to expectations - in a confrontation with security, if you think of them as ignorant goons who don't understand the law, they will act like ignorant goons who don't understand the law. They may very well BE ignorant goons who don't understand the law, but in every unjustified backroom story I've ever read, the main problem is that the protagonists always set themselves up in a situation where security has little reason to let them go and a lot of reason to probe further.

And remember, no matter what happens, you can always be polite. It's free, doesn't cost you anything, and can smooth out a rough situation. The book of proverbs says: "A gentle response turns away wrath".

[vegas28]

Originally Posted by moo321

That's an interesting perspective. I actually have more respect for surveillance than most of the other employees. Apparently, a lot of these guys count cards on their days off.

I do it all the time, when not working, and its strictly entertainment for me... i rarely go more than $15.00.