Is Crown beatable?

[Howie]

Hey all..

Im still fairly new to counting, ive been practicing properly for about 6 months.

Went last night for just a look around, as I had heard they had recently introduced CSM's

Well from what I saw that wasnt the case.. So no CSM's was good news, but yes the rules suck..

So yes I am aware that Crowns rules absolutely suck.. But thats not what im asking.

My question is, Is it possible to beat Crown, (without entering the Mahogany Room) on a reasonably small BR. (Say $1000)

If so, what betting strategies have you used, and at what particular tables

I have heard of a lot of people beating it, but never knew their strategy.

I think it can be beatable, but the return and RoR might be a touch higher..

But, Is it truly beatable!?!?

So any replies welcome, and yes, I know Crown sucks lol, but as im not really planning on travelling anywhere just yet, its going to have to do for now..

So how should I go about it?

Thanks

Howie.

[StudiodeKadent]

Well, lets assume you have a Non-CSM table.

Crown's non-"silly money" BJ rules utterly suck. The rules are either 6 or 8 decks, Hit-Soft-17, no-RSA, split-to-three otherwise, no surrender, 1 card on split-aces, double 9-11 only.

These rules blow. Crown is now WORSE than Jupiters or Treasury (in terms of house edge).

HOWEVER, the house edge is roughly 0.7% (approx). Now, this sucks, but card counting can beat this. IIRC, counting via Hi-Lo can give the player about a 1% edge. Even with Crown's rules, you should be able to get a mathematical edge over the casino, in a countable game.

So yes, on a countable table, Crown is still technically beatable via Hi-Lo.

[Howie]

Thanks..

So these rules dont apply anymore?

http://www.blackjack.iinet.net.au/Crown.html

What are the full list of rules now then...? and whats the difference between the red felt (sports) and the green felt tables?

Cheers

Howie

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by Howie

Thanks..

So these rules dont apply anymore?

http://www.blackjack.iinet.net.au/Crown.html

No. The website you quote is old and not updated any more (to my knowlege).

What are the full list of rules now then...? and whats the difference between the red felt (sports) and the green felt tables?

Sports Blackjack is probably better named "Rape Of Players." Blackjack pays Six To Five, AND the dealer HITS on Soft 17. Do not EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER play Sports Blackjack.

For all of Crown's variations and rules see here: http://www.crowncasino.com.au/assets...ersion11.0.pdf

Crown's STANDARD Blackjack rules (as described in the .pdf) are: six or eight decks, shoe or csm, S17, Split twice, only split once with aces, one card only on split aces, double on 9-11 only, no surrender, original bets only if dealer BJ's. The document also describes Vegas Blackjack, and Vegas BJ is the same but with a Late Surrender option and double any 2 cards.

Vegas Blackjack is probably their best game. If you cannot get that, then take their normal BJ (and make sure its not "Crown BJ" but just plain "Blackjack". If you are in doubt, ask the supervisor!).

But AVOID SPORTS BLACKJACK LIKE THE PLAGUE IT IS!

[Howie]

Thanks for that mate..

Sports blackjack yes seems pretty shite, and thats all red felt tables yeah?

How do I tell the difference between vegas and normal BJ?

Oh, and whats the pontoon like? Is that another rapeage on Crowns behalf?

Howie.

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by Howie

Sports blackjack yes seems pretty shite, and thats all red felt tables yeah?

To my knowlege, yes. All red felt tables = "play this table and get raped." If you are in doubt, look at the little sign to the left of the dealer. It should tell you the exact variation of the game that is being played.

How do I tell the difference between vegas and normal BJ?

Vegas BJ is rarely offerred any more and if it is, its minimums will be large (at least 50 bucks). However, you can tell its Vegas if 1) you can double on any two cards and 2) surrender is offerred (its mathematically the same as late surrender).

If you don't know, ask the dealer or supervisor.

Oh, and whats the pontoon like? Is that another rapeage on Crowns behalf?

Howie.

I've HEARD that Pontoon has a lower house edge than the Blackjack. At least this is true for Star City in Sydney. However, I would be wary of Crown's Pontoon game... you cannot play Pontoon like regular blackjack and I don't know the strategy.

[StudiodeKadent]

For reference, the house edges I have calculated are as follows:

CROWN (standard rules (6D S17 D9-11 DAS SplitTo3 noRSA OBO-if-dealer-BJs)) = 0.527% for a shoe game and 0.507% for a CSM game (CSMs actually lower the house edge slightly for basic strategy players: 0.02% for a 6 Deck game)

CROWN (H17 rules (as above but H17 instead of S17)) = 0.749% shoe and 0.729% CSM

CROWN (Rape Game ("Sports Blackjack," H17 6:5)) = 2.1% for shoe and 2.08% for CSM

STAR CITY (standard rules (6D S17 D9-11 DAS SplitOnce BB+1-if-dealer-BJs)) = 0.56% (calculation sourced from wizardofodds.com), I'd assume its 0.56% for CSM, 0.58% for shoe (assuming a 6 deck shoe).

JUPITERS/TREASURY (standard rules (6D S17 D9-11 DAS SplitOnce OBO-if-dealer-BJs)) = 0.55% CSM, 0.57% shoe

Overall, the rankings are as follows (from best to worst)
CROWN Standard Rules
JUPITERS/TREASURY
STAR CITY
CROWN H17
CROWN "RAPE"

So yeah, don't pass up an S17 game at Crown if you can afford the table min. That game gets an extra split that we don't up here in QLD. But avoid their H17 games like the plague, and make sure you tell EVERYONE to NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER play "Sports Blackjack."