Daily Swings in the thousands

[matt21]

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

[bj bob]

Originally Posted by matt21

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

The best way to overcome this mindset is simply to focus on the mechanics of the game. If your original bet was one chip and you are dealt a pair of aces then your next response will be to add another chip to the second ace. It's as simple as that. It makes no difference if the original bet was one red chip ($5) or black ($100), just do your thing. If your session ends with an 18 chip surplus, then you've won $90. If they're black, then you're up $1800. No need to even think about it during your playing time. That should have been considered long before you even sit down to play as to your bankroll requirements, risk of ruin etc. If you have to sweat every bet, then you shouldn't be playing at that level. It's very simple really, at least it should be.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by matt21

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

No, it doesn't become easier. The only thing that makes it easier is lowering your bet relative to your bankroll/income. Anything short of full Kelly will be stressful, and even with a full Kelly bankroll the losing streaks can get really boring.

[EasyRhino]

Wait, bets SHORT of full kelly will be stressfull? Bets equal to or over it would be much more stressful!

Anyway, the two ways I can it can make it easier to process the swings are to a) be rich, or b) treat your betting and bankroll more abtractly. Maybe quantify it as units, or at least express everything as % of bankroll. Maybe.

But ultimately there's a comfort level involved. I simply don't think I can take betting any more than my current levels.

[stophon]

easyrhino update your blog post

[kewljason]

Originally Posted by matt21

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.
I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.
I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?
I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

Personally, I have always found the emotional part of the bankroll swings to be, by far the most difficult part of AP. I always try to keep track of wins and losses in terms of units, as easyRhino suggusted rather than money. I also think in terms of EV for each session as you suggusted. After big "swing" sessions, win or lose, I always remind myself that I really made the EV times hours played. If I won, that I'm just temporarily holding extra money and of course after a loss that the casino is just temporarily holding my money. But, being human, this only helps so much. It's at these times I find myself re-reading many texts and information concerning bankroll requirement and why we need large bankrolls to substain these swings. I like to think that each time gets a bit easier, but I'm not sure it really does.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by matt21

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

Matt,

My biggest win and most devastating loss came back to back and it changed my approach to the game forever.

Many years ago at the end of a very fine fiscal year for my company I decided to take a trip and visit a River Boat that had a very, very fine game. I was feeling very positive and on top of the world. I checked into their hotel, I was high on life, I still remember how great I felt, what a feeling...and I sat at the HL room BJ table and played like a machine, getting alot of attention and special treatment. I won $39,000 that day. After those long sessions I was comped a super dinner..... wandered... turned down a few offers from some knock out women and crashed in my room.

The next day I got up with the same great feelings, had a nice light breakfast, went back to my room and went through my rituals, shower, shave, study, burn some Sage mixed with dried Rosebuds and Rose Bush from my Land, waft the smoke over me, apply some of the ashes to my feet so that I may walk there again...and then to the table to again play like a "BJ Warrior.. Machine".

This time it was a disaster, after many session that day I had lost back $37,000. The feelings I had were brutal, true I had won overall, but....that 2 days changed my strategy forever. And at the end of my last session I was told by a gentleman accompanied by two plainclothes security that I could not play BJ there again, but anything else. He then told me to go to the restaurant and all food and drinks were on the house as well as the room.

Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

[matt21]

hey thanks for all the replies and advice! that's very appreciated.

ok, i have never had a +$39k day! my biggest session win and loss were both around $5k, the biggest win in one day was around $10k. i think i am fairly much focusing on the units rather than the dollars but i guess at the end of the day $5,000 is still $5,000. i have made sure that bankroll can sustain my betting ramps but thank you for reminding of this.

it seems from all your comments that i am thinking about my game in the right way - i.e. focusing on units and EV. I have got my game to a level where my hourly EV is $75-$100, so this way my motivation is high for playing. Playing for 6 hours in day then adds $450-$600 to my career EV which is quite acceptable.

thanks again everyone and good luck at the tables! go get them!

[vingtetun]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

Matt,

My biggest win and most devastating loss came back to back and it changed my approach to the game forever.

Many years ago at the end of a very fine fiscal year for my company I decided to take a trip and visit a River Boat that had a very, very fine game. I was feeling very positive and on top of the world. I checked into their hotel, I was high on life, I still remember how great I felt, what a feeling...and I sat at the HL room BJ table and played like a machine, getting alot of attention and special treatment. I won $39,000 that day. After those long sessions I was comped a super dinner..... wandered... turned down a few offers from some knock out women and crashed in my room.

The next day I got up with the same great feelings, had a nice light breakfast, went back to my room and went through my rituals, shower, shave, study, burn some Sage mixed with dried Rosebuds and Rose Bush from my Land, waft the smoke over me, apply some of the ashes to my feet so that I may walk there again...and then to the table to again play like a "BJ Warrior.. Machine".

This time it was a disaster, after many session that day I had lost back $37,000. The feelings I had were brutal, true I had won overall, but....that 2 days changed my strategy forever. And at the end of my last session I was told by a gentleman accompanied by two plainclothes security that I could not play BJ there again, but anything else. He then told me to go to the restaurant and all food and drinks were on the house as well as the room.

Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

That is a very interesting story. I bet your people are very happy that the white face does share your approach of only playing in casinos owned by their people as they would make very little money. Also, if you only play engine casinos and you are an AP, aren't you actually taking money from your own people in the long run and wouldn't it be better to take money from the white man.

To be clear Panther you have helped me in the past and I do not mean to demean you or your decisions on where to play but I just don't understand your reasoning or I missed the point of that last paragraph which is very possible as I just stayed up all night with an infant.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

...Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

I appreciate your appreciation for your ancestry.

How do you feel about people who only discover they are Indians as soon as they have an opportunity to build a casino? Amerind ancestry is common even among Americans who appear to be white or black, and it's great if they explore that part of their history, attend powwows, preserve the language and traditions. But to say "Hey I'm 1/32 Indian, now I can create a tribe with no history, claim some land, build a casino and get rich" is something I would consider degrading to American Indians, especially when said by someone who never identified with being one before.