Counting or basic strategy for recreational players ?

[newb99]

As I may have mentioned in the past, Mrs N and I are saving our pennies in order to visit Sin City, hopefully sometime this year.

Having seen the movie "21", where the counters who are caught get a bashing, and read a little about "heat" and "backrooming", she's somewhat concerned about my wanting to count and has said she thinks I should stick with BS at the table mins. So the dilemma is; do the counting thing and make it a working holiday with the risk of getting backed off, or play BS and not have to keep one eye on the PB, worry about spreading the bets too wide or making deviations from BS as the count shifts. When she visited LV some years back one of the group was told he couldn't play BJ in one of the larger strip hotels - he wasn't counting, or even playing tight BS, just raising his bets as he was winning. Although it's clear now it was no big deal, she said he did wonder whether he would be escorted off the premises if he went back there (so they didn't) and everywhere else he visited he was conscious of it happening again. We don't have all of that $#it here in the UK.

I'll probably play $5 and $10 tables, so at most will be playing $800/hr - taking the EVs, the difference between BS (losing $4) and counting (winning 2units = $20) isn't that great bearing in mind the variance inherrent in the game and the overall cost of the trip from the UK. I'll probably take $2,000 to play with which is holiday money I'm not expecting to come home with (so anything I do bring home will be a bonus). Looking at the WoO's RoR table, it seems that after 37.5hrs of play there's a 5% chance of losing $1,370 (assuming $10 flat betting) and less than a 1% chance of losing the lot.

So I'm in two minds as to whether the counting thing is really worth the hassle, and may just save it for the last day or two - having also experienced seeing 8 and 16 unit bets get consistently swept up at high counts (I play 1-8), I'm also concerned that an adverse swing will see a big chunk of the pocket money going south early on - which'll put a dampner on things (can't think of anything worse than being in LV and not having any money to play with just two days into a week's visit??)

Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the matter to offer ?

On another point, are there any $10 games on the strip?

[johndoe]

I'd say don't worry about it, and do whatever you think is most fun. For shoe games, spreading 1-8 in red is nothing; I'd be stunned if any strip property even raised their eyebrows at this. Going 1-12 or more in green is pretty universally tolerated in my experience, as long as you aren't being too obvious.

As for $10 tables, check the trop, and maybe the MGM properties (Grand, Monte Carlo, etc.) off-hours. They'll almost certainly be H17 though.

But don't let it ruin your vacation by (her) worrying. You're talking about an EV of $5-$10/hr anyhow, and variance will swamp everything. The value of your pleasure is probably more important here.

But if you want to play to win you very well can without problems IMO.

[Pro21]

The best advice I can give you is get a copy of Comp City, and check out the Las Vegas Adviser. You aren't going to make any money counting but you might be able to gain some considerable ev through comps and coupons.

[ChefJJ]

In my opinion, don't bother counting if it isn't second nature to you. Flat bet or something like that with perfect basic strategy, have some good drinks, and enjoy yourself in Vegas. But if you are proficient in counting the cards down, a reduced spread might not hurt too bad, especially with respect to your two concerns: variance and heat.

But that's just an off-the-cuff response, and I wholly agree with Pro21. Get yo comps.

good luck

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by newb99

she's somewhat concerned about my wanting to count and has said she thinks I should stick with BS at the table mins

Will you counting cards lower her enjoyment of your (plural) vacation? IANA marriage counselor, but if the answer is yes, the course of action seems pretty obvious.

Feelings aside, her not enjoying herself is probably going to be long term EV negative for you. If she's hovering over your shoulder as you play because she doesn't trust you, that's probably worse than just playing BS.

Originally Posted by newb99

are there any $10 games on the strip?

Absolutely every casino will have $10 games at some time and most will have $10 games all the time. Sometimes the $10 games will be bad (6:5 BJ, CSM, etc) but even on a Friday/Saturday night I'd be surprised if you found two adjacent casinos with no $10 options.

If it's your first time to Vegas, my advice would be just to make sure it's an enjoyable trip. Eat at a nice restaurant, see a fancy show, have teh sex, and if you don't get a chance to play blackjack don't sweat it.

[bj bob]

Originally Posted by callipygian

Will you counting cards lower her enjoyment of your (plural) vacation? IANA marriage counselor, but if the answer is yes, the course of action seems pretty obvious.

If it's your first time to Vegas, my advice would be just to make sure it's an enjoyable trip. Eat at a nice restaurant, see a fancy show, have the sex, and if you don't get a chance to play blackjack don't sweat it.

Agree with Calli here. Stick with KY+BS= +EV!

[StudiodeKadent]

Originally Posted by newb99

As I may have mentioned in the past, Mrs N and I are saving our pennies in order to visit Sin City, hopefully sometime this year.

Having seen the movie "21", where the counters who are caught get a bashing, and read a little about "heat" and "backrooming", she's somewhat concerned about my wanting to count and has said she thinks I should stick with BS at the table mins. So the dilemma is; do the counting thing and make it a working holiday with the risk of getting backed off, or play BS and not have to keep one eye on the PB, worry about spreading the bets too wide or making deviations from BS as the count shifts.

If you are just playing recreationally, then stick with playing perfect BS and comp-whore.

Also, if you are not counting, play against a CSM. On a 6-deck game, a CSM lowers the house edge by 0.02%, plus it also lowers the variance because the composition of the deck remains constant.

Also, I think you can get $15 S17 tables at Mandalay Bay. So if you would rather play S17 than H17 and can spare an extra $5 per hand in minimum bet, that may be an option.

[newb99]

Originally Posted by callipygian

If it's your first time to Vegas, my advice would be just to make sure it's an enjoyable trip. Eat at a nice restaurant, see a fancy show, have the sex, and if you don't get a chance to play blackjack don't sweat it.

.

Don't need to visit LV for the sex, although if you're referring to the variety that comes served up as room service I think Mrs N may have a few words to say on the matter - in which case the discussions around BJ will fade into the background. I'll stick with the food, shows and keeping Mrs N on side.

Thanks for your words of wisdom everyone.

[FLASH1296]

I'd heed and adhere to the excellent advice proffered by Callipygian and StudiodeKadent






"callipygian" |ˌkaləˈpijēən| (also callipygean)
[adjective]
Having well-shaped buttocks.

[daddybo]

Originally Posted by newb99

.

Don't need to visit LV for the sex, although if you're referring to the variety that comes served up as room service I think Mrs N may have a few words to say on the matter - in which case the discussions around BJ will fade into the background. I'll stick with the food, shows and keeping Mrs N on side.

Thanks for your words of wisdom everyone.

I'm a pretty naive guy.. but as far as sex... My wife says hotel sex is the best kind! ( I think so too!)

Have Fun!

db