Been Away for a Long Time

[gratianus]

It's been four years since I visited Vegas (domestic issues), but it's time to restart. I'm no big money player, preferring to play $5 tables and topping out at $25 for a high positive hand. But I do like the challenge.
I started counting cards with Thorpe around 1970, and used strategies from Knockout Blackjack when last in Vegas.
I have a few questions.
Back in 2005, clubs were making it harder and harder to get a fair game. I presume that trend continues. My best times were off the Strip, and espcially downtown at the Plaza. Where can a small player today find the most liberal rules and tolerant pit bosses?
Has any counting system come along that is combines the simplicity and effectiveness of Knockout Blackjack?
Thanks.

[KenSmith]

KO will still serve you well, and your best shot for good low-limit games is downtown. The game is actually not that much tougher than it was 4 years ago. Yes, some of the tables have been replaced by single deck 6:5 games, and some by CSMs. But if you look around, there are still decent games to be found.

[callipygian]

Welcome.

I think games now aren't very different from where they were in 2005, with the possible exceptions of the pleasure pits (blackjack with bad rules but hot dealers). 6:5 shoe games have crept in to HET properties.

I presume that you're more of a SD/DD guy, rather than the Wong/6D type. If so, I think there are some DD opportunities on the Strip but most of the good SD/DD games are downtown. Do you have CBJN? That's probably a good place to start.

[rukus]

Originally Posted by gratianus

It's been four years since I visited Vegas (domestic issues), but it's time to restart. I'm no big money player, preferring to play $5 tables and topping out at $25 for a high positive hand. But I do like the challenge.
I started counting cards with Thorpe around 1970, and used strategies from Knockout Blackjack when last in Vegas.
I have a few questions.
Back in 2005, clubs were making it harder and harder to get a fair game. I presume that trend continues. My best times were off the Strip, and espcially downtown at the Plaza. Where can a small player today find the most liberal rules and tolerant pit bosses?
Has any counting system come along that is combines the simplicity and effectiveness of Knockout Blackjack?
Thanks.

8Ders and H17 have spread like the plague. but as mentioned above, there are a few good games left.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by rukus

8Ders and H17 have spread like the plague. but as mentioned above, there are a few good games left.

I think the big S17-H17 transition happened in 1999-2002, so if he played in 2005 he should have already noted the lack of S17 games.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by callipygian

I think the big S17-H17 transition happened in 1999-2002, so if he played in 2005 he should have already noted the lack of S17 games.

The MGM Grand, sometime last year, went from over 25 S-17 6D tables, with games as low as $10, to about a handfull all with a minimum of $25 or more. I consider that a large loss for S-17 and especially significant for red chip players.

ihate17

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by ihate17

The MGM Grand, sometime last year, went from over 25 S-17 6D tables, with games as low as $10, to about a handfull all with a minimum of $25 or more. I consider that a large loss for S-17 and especially significant for red chip players.

Argh, I didn't even know that. That's sad, MGM Grand was a "double stop" casino on my South Strip tour ... I'd hit MGM Grand on the way down to Mandalay Bay and then hit it again on the way back. =(

[rukus]

Originally Posted by ihate17

The MGM Grand, sometime last year, went from over 25 S-17 6D tables, with games as low as $10, to about a handfull all with a minimum of $25 or more. I consider that a large loss for S-17 and especially significant for red chip players.

ihate17

bingo, that place used to be a great stop along the wonger express (it still is i suppose).

in reality, the spread of 8Ders concerns me more, as the difference in H17 vs S17 rule isnt as pronounced for backcounters.

[gratianus]

I used to get CBJN data before visiting Vegas, and will probably do it again. However, there was another source that provided data that was more easily sortable. I don't recall the name. Any suggestions?

[chichow]

Originally Posted by rukus

bingo, that place used to be a great stop along the wonger express (it still is i suppose).

in reality, the spread of 8Ders concerns me more, as the difference in H17 vs S17 rule isnt as pronounced for backcounters.

What do you consider Wonger express?

--

MGM Grand has soooo many blackjack tables that it is a shame that they went to H17. It was / still is fun for green chip action to hop from table to table and pit to pit at the MGM Grand.