Three Hands

#1
There is this guy on Ebay selling his blackjack system that consists of playing three hands at a time (flat betting same amount in each circle)..Anyway he is insisting that this THREE HAND PLAY is the ONLY way to win....IN FACT he's claiming that if you play as little as $25 per hand for three hands simultaneously($75 at risk each session ),You can win BIG money.....He says by betting $25 per circle and using a starting bankroll of just $2500,He claims that you can almost DOUBLE that $2500 in a very short period of time such as a couple 2-3 hours!!

Has anybody tried this 3 HANDED system?....It requires a BIG bankroll...mabe someone that has a simulator can run it thru and see what happens to the bankroll.....using BS of course.....
 

Gregory

Well-Known Member
#5
What's this stuff? Good God, just say no. The only time you want to have three hands out there is when the count is in your favor. You can make bank then.
Hey, maybe the dude also sells you a copy of Knock-Out Blackjack along with his betting scheme. :joker:
 

tedloc

Well-Known Member
#6
Think about it...

joel099 said:
There is this guy on Ebay selling his blackjack system that consists of playing three hands at a time (flat betting same amount in each circle)..Anyway he is insisting that this THREE HAND PLAY is the ONLY way to win....IN FACT he's claiming that if you play as little as $25 per hand for three hands simultaneously($75 at risk each session ),You can win BIG money.....He says by betting $25 per circle and using a starting bankroll of just $2500,He claims that you can almost DOUBLE that $2500 in a very short period of time such as a couple 2-3 hours!!

Has anybody tried this 3 HANDED system?....It requires a BIG bankroll...mabe someone that has a simulator can run it thru and see what happens to the bankroll.....using BS of course.....
How can playing three hands have any affect on your overall play. Unless you can tell what the next 8 cards in the shoe are going to be, you have no better chance of winning with three hands as you do with one hand. If you can see the cards, bet three times as much on your single hand.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#7
joel099 said:
There is this guy on Ebay selling his blackjack system that consists of playing three hands at a time (flat betting same amount in each circle)..Anyway he is insisting that this THREE HAND PLAY is the ONLY way to win....IN FACT he's claiming that if you play as little as $25 per hand for three hands simultaneously($75 at risk each session ),You can win BIG money.....
First of all, NEVER EVER EVER buy a blackjack system from eBay. There are tons of worthless "systems" and "e-books" for sale on the site. Although eBay often has good deals on used BJ books, you should ONLY stick to the reputable ones (Wong, Schlesinger, Snyder, etc.). If you don't you will be wasting your money.

That said, there actually is a variation of the "three hand" betting system that works. The Grifter's Gambit has been widely published and is a way of varying between several hands in order to get an advantage. It is based on the fact that betting 3 hands of one unit is not the same as betting 1 hand of three units. The amount of money in action is the same, but the variance is much different. It also takes advantage of the "card eating" effect in pitch games. His Gambit still requires a modest spread, but it is not nearly as blatant as directly spreading with the count.

Since this techniqe is ZenGrifter's pet I'll let him explain.

-Sonny-
 
#8
"Grifter's Gambit"

Sonny said:
That said, there actually is a variation of the "three hand" betting system that works. The Grifter's Gambit has been widely published and is a way of varying between several hands in order to get an advantage. It is based on the fact that betting 3 hands of one unit is not the same as betting 1 hand of three units. The amount of money in action is the same, but the variance is much different. It also takes advantage of the "card eating" effect in pitch games. His Gambit still requires a modest spread, but it is not nearly as blatant as directly spreading with the count. Since this techniqe is ZenGrifter's pet I'll let him explain.
A smaller spread but a bigger BR (explained below). zg

-----------------
ZG INTERVIEW EXCERPT -

You’ve pioneered an unusual betting scheme called the “Grifter’s Gambit.”
Can you describe this method?


Actually I didn’t pioneer the method, I revived it. It was first revealed as “Consolidation Betting” in Mason Malmuth’s Blackjack Essays, in 1985, with little fanfare. Malmuth advocated it as a form of apparent flat-betting for good single deck games. In 1998, George C. took a look at it after I requested he run a simulation. Initially he said it looked like “a stupid idea.” Then he simmed and refined it for quality 2-deck games and discovered it to be a powerful ploy, unknown to pit staffs and surveillance people.

Malmuth deserves the credit but George C refined it and respectfully dubbed it “Grifter’s Gambit,” presumably because I rescued it from obscurity and had him run the sims.

How does it work? Can you give an example?


Ok, let’s say I’m playing a quality two-deck game, heads-up: In minus and neutral counts I bet three hands of one unit each. This eats cards fast in order to speed things along and get to the plus-deck situations quicker. At modest plus-counts I bet three units on one spot. I increase to five units on one spot in moderate plus-counts. In higher counts I bet one spot of seven units. Playing one spot in plus-counts helps preserve the rich portions longer. Per 100 rounds - not hands - the sim showed a gain of four units - with an apparent spread of three to seven units - just barely more than a 1-2 spread!

For a good single deck game there can be a virtual flat-bet: in minus counts bet three spots of one unit, and in plus counts bet one spot of three or four units - this will yield a similar gain to a traditional 1-4 spread BUT with higher variance. However, because the minimum bet is 3 x 1 unit, the comps are much better. One other thing: you must be playing alone at the table if it’s single deck or with no more than one other at a double decker.

Have you tested this betting scheme? What were your findings?
Did you encounter any heat or scrutiny while using it?


I have applied variations of the technique on and off in quality single and double-deck games with absolutely no heat. Irrespective of my act, I think that the technique is pretty much off the counter-alert radar screen. I even allude to "my new system" while dealers and pit critters grimace in disdain as I chronically “wreck the flow of cards” after a favorable streak by ‘compulsively’ changing the number of hands being played.

A while back I utilized it for hours on-end and for several consecutive days at a prominent Strip resort, spreading from three hands of $50 to one hand of $350, while listening to pit and dealer accounts of an on-going “counter-purge.”

I’ve played this gambit with a green spread for many hours at the single deck tables of a downtown Vegas casino - one of the sweatiest and most suspicious casinos in Nevada, known for rapid and aggressive barrings of novice red chip counters. They loved my action. They’d instantly make my table $25 minimum when I requested it. Ultimately my cumulative play did me in.

All totaled, I put in over 25 hours there, spanning a few months. I was finally barred, but it wasn’t because they had any reservations about my betting. I simply over-played that joint.

At double-deck games I hesitate to include an estimate of just how many negative decks I might abandon in an hour - the sim assumed no exiting. I often appear to be “closing a big deal" and must run to the house phone or step back from the table frequently after an imaginary page or a pager or cell phone chirp. I complain excessively about the attorneys and associates needing me to hold their hand through every detail!

You mentioned higher variance. What kind of bankroll do you need to play a Grifter’s Gambit with an acceptable risk-of-ruin?

The double-deck sim showed a 22% risk-of-ruin with 500 units of bank. With 700 units it drops to 11%. At 1000 units it’s 5%, and you can reduce it to 1% with a 1500 unit bankroll. For a typical 20 hour trip there is a 17% chance of losing 250 units. Like I said, a higher risk-variance, but conversely better comps. George C.’s sim was run on Karel Janacek’s marvelous Statistical Blackjack Analyzer.

You pulled off a Grifter Gambit play at the Lakeside in Tahoe. That play is especially revealing as to the camouflage afforded by consolidation betting.

Yes. The small Lakeside Lodge had the best rules in Lake Tahoe in 2000 – a one deck game with double after split. The challenge was that being the best game in Tahoe, and a small joint to boot, The Lakeside gives tremendous scrutiny to large and/or unusual players.

I sat down at a $3 table - the only table open - with three other nickel players and bet 1-5 quarters in a non-count related progression for about 10 minutes, and then I asked the dealer if he thought the house would give me a quarter game. He called the pit manager, 'Augie,' over who warmly invited me to wait 10 minutes and they'd give me a game.

On my first hand at my $25 table I spread to three hands of $25, and the dealer informed me that "three hands require five times the minimum” - $125 each. I looked at Augie and he shrugged and said "three times $75 each - for him," at which I mock hesitated then increased to three hands of $75 and proceeded to lose all three hands and including a double-down. The count being slightly negative, I frowned at Augie and put out three bets of $75 and won all three. The count tanked further south and I increased my bets to three bets of $100, and I won again.

Now I was 'in like Flynn' - when the count was negative I would bet three times $75-$100, when the count was positive I would bet one hand of $300-$500, which was the house limit. About 15 minutes into the play a female approached and bet a single quarter - I frowned at the manager and reduced my bet to two hands of $50. She played a couple more hands and wandered off as Augie put a 'reserved' sign at my table and glowingly invited me to “... place any size bet per three hands, you now have a private game!"

Now my bets ranged from a low of three times $25 to a max of one hand of $500 or two bets of $375 or three times $300. In 45 minutes I was ahead $6000, at which point Augie came behind me and said, "I have bad news," and I'm thinking he's going to bar me. But instead he informs me that "upstairs has decided that you gotta bet $125 each at three hands.” Oh well "sucking me in" I replied wistfully, he says "sorry."

So now I shift my betting to three times $125 in negative counts and one hand of $500 in positive counts – winning three rounds of three times $125 in amazing succession. I happily call out to Augie, "its working, thanks!"

Exactly 60 minutes into the play I’m up $10k when Augie taps my shoulder and informs me that "we decline your further play." Smiling I wave half of my winnings in the form of ten $500 chips and taunt, "don’t you guys wanna to try to win half of it back?" "No!" The romance was over.

I managed to get a comped lunch from Augie before cashing out, the two remaining tables had a total 5 nickel players as I departed.

END EXCERPT
 
#9
Talk to a three handed player

I just recently talked to a blackjack player that plays three hands all the time. He says what you have to decide is how much to put in each circle and then decide to walk away when you have won the amount that was in all three of the three circles. also requires a HUGE bankroll..$3500 .....For example ........He plays $100 per hand for a total of three hands($300 out there at once)..he then keeps playing until he has a $300 dollar profit...Then QUITS!!!........sometimes he says it only takes one hand if the dealer busts on the first hand and he wins ALL three......... and sometimes it takes 60 rounds, but he claims he has "NEVER lost"....Hmmmm.....I have to WONDER about THAT statement!!..
 

jimbiggs

Well-Known Member
#10
joel099 said:
I just recently talked to a blackjack player that plays three hands all the time. He says what you have to decide is how much to put in each circle and then decide to walk away when you have won the amount that was in all three of the three circles. also requires a HUGE bankroll..$3500 .....For example ........He plays $100 per hand for a total of three hands($300 out there at once)..he then keeps playing until he has a $300 dollar profit...Then QUITS!!!........sometimes he says it only takes one hand if the dealer busts on the first hand and he wins ALL three......... and sometimes it takes 60 rounds, but he claims he has "NEVER lost"....Hmmmm.....I have to WONDER about THAT statement!!..
I played with a guy that played 3 spots at $100 each. He was up for a while and then lost 2 to 3 thousand by the time I left. We played together for about 4 hours. He wasn't counting.
 
#11
Nope, will not work.

For one thing, to play 3 hands, most casinos want you to bet 4 x the minimum bet. You can't bet one unit on each hand unless one unit is already 4 x the min.

All hogwash!
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
#12
I'm going to try a new system I just invented. It's called "Urine The Money".

(Get it? Urine? You're In?? God I'll make millions marketing the name alone.)

Anyway, every time I get up to take a leak, I'll play 3 hands of $100 each until the next time I have to go take a leak. Then it's back to 1 hand of $25 until I have to go again.

I figure this will have an equal chance of being a great system compared to this eBay one.

:)
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#13
Kaiser said:
Anyway, every time I get up to take a leak, I'll play 3 hands of $100 each until the next time I have to go take a leak. Then it's back to 1 hand of $25 until I have to go again.
I like it! And I'm sure there are plenty of “experts” who will give “mathematical proof” that it works. They’ll cite phenomena like “waitress-biased tables”, “fudge factors”, “pee streaks” and “piss-backs.” Maybe our friend Cipher can pick up the R&D end. And, of course, this system "cannot be simulated by computer" because of "the flaw"

-Sonny-
 
#14
Sonny said:
I like it! And I'm sure there are plenty of “experts” who will give “mathematical proof” that it works. They’ll cite phenomena like “waitress-biased tables”, “fudge factors”, “pee streaks” and “piss-backs.” Maybe our friend Cipher can pick up the R&D end. And, of course, this system "cannot be simulated by computer" because of "the flaw"

-Sonny-
You know I really find it hilarious to see these empty suit no bodies running their mouth off when 1) They haven't got the balls and 2) the haven't got the scratch to put up or shut up. This is your shot Sonny boy step on up to the plate 10 - 20 G's make it easy on yourself.

Cipher
 
#15
CIPHER said:
You know I really find it hilarious to see these empty suit no bodies running their mouth off when 1) They haven't got the balls and 2) the haven't got the scratch to put up or shut up. This is your shot Sonny boy step on up to the plate 10 - 20 G's make it easy on yourself.
Ahh, the return of Dr. Switchback, I presume? Well doctor, you've come to the right forum! zg

Ps- Cipher = Ghost of Doug Grant
 
#16
zengrifter said:
Ahh, the return of Dr. Switchback, I presume? Well doctor, you've come to the right forum! zg
That parole board just dosen't learn their lesson with you do they ZG? Just another repeat offender on the loose.

Cipher
 
#17
CIPHER said:
That parole board just dosen't learn their lesson with you do they ZG? Just another repeat offender on the loose.
Welcome to the Voodoo Betting Strategies Forum, Dr. Cipher. Regale us with visions of software-enabled trend-analyzing pattern-recognition induced e-casino riches!! zg

Doctor Switchback Ciphers the Patterns

"The Cipher Java 2.0 Edition is now complete and is available to members of The Gambling Edge Forum at the rate of $1,000 per copy which includes three 30-minute sessions that are to be played between the purchaser of the CIPHER program and Cipher through the use of the SKYPE program so as to allow the purchaser of the Cipher program to become fully aware of all of the features of the Cipher program."
 
#18
zengrifter said:
Welscome to the Voodoo Betting Strategies Forum, Dr. Cipher. Regale us with visions of software-enabled trend-analyzing pattern-recognition induced e-casino riches!! zg

Well all you need to do is go to the area of (Dead link: http://www.thegamblingedge.com) and then click the forums button and then go to the last category where you'll find 18 (thats right ZG 18 in a row) recent sessions without a loss.

OH NO!, SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! and the really neat thing about those sessions is the FACT that everyone of those sessions are taped from start to finish just for those doubting Thomases such as yourself. View em all little fella, view em all.

I see that you and your little lovely have disabled the attachments for me as I guess you can't argue with facts and videos heh, ZG?

Cipher
 
#19
CIPHER said:
Well all you need to do is go to the area of (Dead link: http://www.thegamblingedge.com) and then click the forums button and then go to the last category where you'll find 18 (thats right ZG 18 in a row) recent sessions without a loss.

OH NO!, SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! and the really neat thing about those sessions is the FACT that everyone of those sessions are taped from start to finish just for those doubting Thomases such as yourself. View em all little fella, view em all.
I have heard on the grapevine that you have entered a JV with Lucky Ned to develop the next generation in CipherWARE, to be called CipherGUTS...

OH NO!, SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! zg

FROM CIPHER -
"Combinations of ascending and descending stair steps, as well as switchbacks, triggers, mirages, clumps and/or runs make up what I refer to as virtual fingerprints, with each casino..."
 

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#20
How about a visit to your office?

The Gambling Edge
1721 S. County Center Drive
VISALIA, CA 93277
US
559-635-2283 fax: 559-635-2283

Should know more about people you buy software from right?
 
Top