Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

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Old August 4th, 2009, 04:42 PM
critterfer critterfer is offline
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Default blackjack switch & card counting?

I was at the casino in the falls canada last weekend, and i noticed a game called blackjack switch. I didnt play it but you get two , two card hands with equal bets, and you can switch the cards after that, then i think you play it like a normal two hands but the dealed will push at 22. I noticed it wasnt a countinuos shuffle and the cards were dealt from a shoe. Is it possible to count cards at this game? If anybody knows. Im new at this idea of card counting. I noticed all other tables had CSM on the tables even 25 per hand games.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 05:01 PM
Grisly Dreams Grisly Dreams is offline
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Arnold Snyder's Big Book of Blackjack has a section on strategies for playing oddball games, and that section includes blackjack switch. I don't remember how much depth he goes into, though. Some of the games have actual counts, with accompanying indices, and I can't remember whether blackjack switch was one of those or not.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 12:36 PM
SystemsTrader SystemsTrader is offline
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It's best to avoid counting this game especially if you are new to blackjack. Don't use Snyder's Big Book of Blackjack he doesn't give you enough info to beat the game and his method doesn't cover how to play double downs or splits.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 01:15 PM
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Always default to initially going to:

wizardofodds.com
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Old August 5th, 2009, 03:44 PM
callipygian callipygian is offline
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(1) Post this in the Variations forum, there are some threads in there already about BJ Switch.

(2) The problem with BJ Switch is that basic strategy is non-obvious. The no-brainer decisions account for maybe 1/3, the decisions that Snyder recommends covers about 1/3, but then the last 1/3 are not obvious at all. There are very few rules which can be used as guidelines and as a result I don't think people can bring down the house edge anywhere close to the theoretical 0.4%. More likely than not, it's 1% or higher.

(3) Counting works, and Hi-Lo is as good as any.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
(3) Counting works, and Hi-Lo is as good as any.
Actually, ExhibitCAA had mentioned the possibility of him posting the effect of removal for this game. I suspect we may see a substantially different EOR than regular blackjack. I would be interested to see them. Hi-Lo may not compare favorably to other alternatives depending on the answer.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 07:36 PM
callipygian callipygian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSmith View Post
Actually, ExhibitCAA had mentioned the possibility of him posting the effect of removal for this game. I suspect we may see a substantially different EOR than regular blackjack. I would be interested to see them. Hi-Lo may not compare favorably to other alternatives depending on the answer.
I calculated it once and I don't remember it being significantly different from regular blackjack - with, again, the caveat being that people have to switch perfectly, which is non-obvious. The EOR's may be different if people are playing with sub-optimal switching strategy.

I'll post what I have if people think that the value of posting it outweighs the cost of disclosure. I'll give a few days for people to comment.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 05:15 PM
ExhibitCAA ExhibitCAA is offline
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I gave a talk on this very topic at the gaming conference. I have more loose ends to finish off on the topic before I'd like to say anything, but I will say this: HiLo is fine. Traditionally, HiLo overvalues the 2, but in BJSwitch, the EOR of removing a 2 is higher due to the push on 22 rule, so HiLo comes out well. I created a variation called the "Switch Halves" count (still mulling over different names), with HiLo tags except the Ace is downgraded to -0.5 and the 9 is -0.5. [Incidentally, only two people--both longtime pros--at the conference asked for a copy of the paper.]
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Old August 12th, 2009, 06:03 PM
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Cool. Gotta attend one of those conferences sometime. A few years back I spent some time in the library at Reno looking through papers from previous conferences.

I'll be interested to see your results, especially given the comment about underweighting the Ace.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExhibitCAA View Post
I gave a talk on this very topic at the gaming conference. I have more loose ends to finish off on the topic before I'd like to say anything, but I will say this: HiLo is fine. Traditionally, HiLo overvalues the 2, but in BJSwitch, the EOR of removing a 2 is higher due to the push on 22 rule, so HiLo comes out well. I created a variation called the "Switch Halves" count (still mulling over different names), with HiLo tags except the Ace is downgraded to -0.5 and the 9 is -0.5. [Incidentally, only two people--both longtime pros--at the conference asked for a copy of the paper.]
Nice. I use "Unbalanced Zen Halves" on 6:5 games- {-1,1,2,2,3,2,1,0,-1,-2}

Maybe RPM would be a slight improvement over High-Low for people who don't want to use a level 2 system.

Did you find a significantly different EOR for the ace between the original version of the game and the downgrade where a switched natural is treated like a drawn 21?
 

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