Would you say this is legal?

W

WRBJ

Active Member
#1
#1
This is completley an idiot dealer, seriously.

I was playing heads up with a dealer on a 6 deck yesterday. I was just doing some fun gambling, not counting or anything. I just wanted to have some fun and blow off some steam.. until i saw the dealer shuffle. When he got all the way done shuffling he took the cards and put them next to the shoe and used the cut card to push them up to the side of it. When he did this, he showed all of the cards that he was going to use next to the people standing behind him, at the other end of the set of tables.

So needless to say, i wonged out and got my friend. We waited until the dealer had to shuffle again, and he did the same thing. My friend stood way in the back and was able to see the cards clearly. He saw that i would get 2 tens, and he came over to tell me while i was holding up the table "on my cell phone". I then placed a nice 1000$ bet, and won it with a dealer getting 18.

So, lets say i go out there and play this dealer a lot. Would this be considered cheating? The dealer is making the big error. I am just taking advantage of it, right?
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
If it's not visible to the players at the table and is being signaled from a player away from the table, it's "spooking" and to my knowledge is illegal, although in the other thread, there's some questions as to whether case law exists for this or not. Either way, I'd say it's fairly unethical at best and almost certainly under the realm of cheating.
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
#4
#4
Wrbj

WRBJ said:
This is completley an idiot dealer, seriously.

I was playing heads up with a dealer on a 6 deck yesterday. I was just doing some fun gambling, not counting or anything. I just wanted to have some fun and blow off some steam.. until i saw the dealer shuffle. When he got all the way done shuffling he took the cards and put them next to the shoe and used the cut card to push them up to the side of it. When he did this, he showed all of the cards that he was going to use next to the people standing behind him, at the other end of the set of tables.

So needless to say, i wonged out and got my friend. We waited until the dealer had to shuffle again, and he did the same thing. My friend stood way in the back and was able to see the cards clearly. He saw that i would get 2 tens, and he came over to tell me while i was holding up the table "on my cell phone". I then placed a nice 1000$ bet, and won it with a dealer getting 18.

So, lets say i go out there and play this dealer a lot. Would this be considered cheating? The dealer is making the big error. I am just taking advantage of it, right?
Click to expand...
Do it but use stealth, NOT how you did it in this post.

If you get caught be prepared for the circumstances.

CP
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
WRBJ said:
This is completley an idiot dealer, seriously.

I was playing heads up with a dealer on a 6 deck yesterday. I was just doing some fun gambling, not counting or anything. I just wanted to have some fun and blow off some steam.. until i saw the dealer shuffle. When he got all the way done shuffling he took the cards and put them next to the shoe and used the cut card to push them up to the side of it. When he did this, he showed all of the cards that he was going to use next to the people standing behind him, at the other end of the set of tables.

So needless to say, i wonged out and got my friend. We waited until the dealer had to shuffle again, and he did the same thing. My friend stood way in the back and was able to see the cards clearly. He saw that i would get 2 tens, and he came over to tell me while i was holding up the table "on my cell phone". I then placed a nice 1000$ bet, and won it with a dealer getting 18.

So, lets say i go out there and play this dealer a lot. Would this be considered cheating? The dealer is making the big error. I am just taking advantage of it, right?
Click to expand...
Hmm... hard to say. Your friend was off the table, so there could be a legal issue... I'd play it, but be really careful. Get to a better spot.

Oh yeah, and he'll be corrected or fired within a few weeks.
 
M

Martin Gayle

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
You can't ignore this but you cannot go about gaining knowledge the way you did. If your buddy is not at the table and is feeding you information coming from the dealer or shoe the casino has a case for spooking. Look for ways to get the dealer to do what he does but in a different direction.

Spooking is illegal in Nevada but has not been tried in many other states but other states are likely to follow Carson City's lead in this one.
 
Liquid Chips

Liquid Chips

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
My position is that it is up to the casino to take measures to ensure the cards are not exposed during shuffling. There isn't anything ethical or moral about your friend helping out here. Of course the casino is going to view it differently. Just don't get too greedy and hence get caught.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Liquid Chips said:
My position is that it is up to the casino to take measures to ensure the cards are not exposed during shuffling. There isn't anything ethical or moral about your friend helping out here.
Click to expand...
Ethically and morally I completely agree with you. Legally, I would not consider playing that game in the way described.

-Sonny-
 
Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Lonesome Gambler said:
If it's not visible to the players at the table...
Click to expand...
Wait - does that mean that everything has to be visible to ALL Players at the table? Wouldn't that mean that hole-carding is illegal because it's easier from different seats?
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Dyepaintball12 said:
Wait - does that mean that everything has to be visible to ALL Players at the table? Wouldn't that mean that hole-carding is illegal because it's easier from different seats?
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be visible to all players but it does have to be information that is available to one of the players through legal means (no devices that give extra-human powers). That player can also legally signal that information to any other players.

-Sonny-
 
L

Licentia

Banned
#12
#12
Sonny said:
Ethically and morally I completely agree with you. Legally, I would not consider playing that game in the way described.

-Sonny-
Click to expand...
That sounds like Las Vegas alright! If it's ethical and moral it's illegal. If it's unethical and immoral the casino's are allowed to do it.

Licentia
 
R

RJT

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Liquid Chips said:
Just don't get too greedy and hence get caught.
Click to expand...
This is a very limited opportunity even disregarding the very dubious legal nature of the venture. Consider the fact that this happens once per shoe - and not every starting card is going to be of an advantage to you (5/13), if you don't play it aggressively you are going to make little difference to your bottom line. In my mind this is the best reason not to play. To earn money you have to bare too high a risk of getting caught and you are not likely to come out on the right side of the resulting legal case.

RJT.
 
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