Counting with 6 decks

Hi All

I am new to the forums. I am currently learning the Hi Opt I and I am from around Bristol and wondering if anyone is around too. I go to Gala at the Harbourside from time to time.

At Gala, the rules are ENHC, DAS, S17. It's 6 decks with about 70% pen. I am under the impression that under these rules, earnings for a card counter can be very low. Is that true?

I was thinking of doing this as a hobby -- I expect that I won't be making much money counting cards at Bristol anyway.

What do you guys think?

If you read through a lot of the past threads you will see it depends - what do you consider "much money"? how much can you afford to bet? what is your bankrole? How will you approach the game, ie bet-spread, maximised EV or play to reduce variance? Will you be wonging in/out if it's possible?

No one answer I'm afraid.

To add to what Newb said, you also need to think about finding games with better pen. 70% is not good enough. 80% games are most definitely around and will significantly improve your profitability.

Thanks for the replies.

With regards to my bankroll, it's not big (around £500 for a £3 minimum bet game), but I am planning on using a small bet spread with wonging in and out, because I don't think sitting through the whole shoe will do me any good.

I think I also want to play to reduce variance. But my knowledge on EV, variance, etc is not great so I will need to do some reading up on these things.

With regards to the pen. It's up to the dealer. Maybe I underestimated the pen because when I look at the deck it's around 1.5 decks deep. (75%).

If you are only "wonging in" ("backcounting") then the game is playable.
Otherwise, it is not.

With such poor penetration, excellent rules are needed.
You have no 'Insurance' available, except against a dealer BJ
and you cannot split 4's. ENHC is the last nail in that coffin.

Find another hobby. This will prove expensive in the long run.

To beat this game, your bankroll is not large enough. You want to be looking at minimum 5000.

I don't want to deflate you as the UK game can be beaten. But the way things stand for you at the moment, the odds are stacked too heavily against you.

Flash is probably right when he says "find another hobby".

If you do get hold of a sufficient bankroll then keep looking for better pen. It's out there.

Who says you can't split 4s in the UK?

As to the last nail in the coffin, you might as well say the same about US H17 games, as the EVs aren't too dissimilar.

Again myself and Newb jump to the rescue of the UK game :grin::grin:

EV isn't THAT bad on some UK games.

Do they do any side bets or anything similar in your casino?

Once an hour(approx) in my local casino they do a double payout on one deal/spin of the roulette wheel etc. As well they have a 'reward card' 1% back on cashed chips, this doesn't sound like a lot but it all chips away at that EV!

Poor rules require excellent penetration.

A Tautology !

My statement is apparently analogous to "Pearls before swine"

"Forewarned is forearmed" - except for those who cannot hear.

Is that a point (with a recoup value of 1p - £5 back for every 500 points) for every tenner put over the felt? That would be 0.1% then? If it was 1% then that in itself would be enough to wipe out the HE at the BJ tables.

Thanks for the input guys. I suspected the rules to be too unfavourable towards me.

How did you come up with a bankroll of £5000? What's the betting range needed for these rules?

And does that apply to me wonging in?

Assuming your betting unit is a fiver, a bankroll of £5K will provide you with 1,000 units. Having a 1,000 units will reduce your risk of ruin (RoR - the point where you've blown the lot) down to the margins, but not remove it completely. Most of the noted publications on the game reckon a bankroll of 400 units to reduce the RoR down to 5%ish - but even with 400 units (£2K) one person in twenty will still end up losing all of their money. Basically, the more the better. If you can play on the £2 tables at Gala that exist, then a bankroll of £1,500 would give you 750 units which falls roughly between the two. The trouble is, that even if you play perfectly your expectation per hour will be less than the National Minimum Wage when playing at £2 per unit.

As with other new players (I was one myself 18 months ago) I think good advice is to spend some of your £500 and buy a good book as a starting point. My recommendation for a new player would be Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder, although other contributors will have their preferences.

If you're like me, and play for the crack, then you can of course play the £2 tables with a roll of £500, but be aware that the liklihood of you losing the lot is pretty high.

Enjoy!

Thanks newb for that reply. I am reading "The Greatest Book in Blackjack" although I think it's more marketing than substance. I also bought Griffin's Theory in Blackjack so I'll read that.

Is there anything else that's worth reading?

I also play in Gala but with only £2 min with a betting unit of £5 with a BR of £2000, been playing lots and lots recently, and the swing is mental! And is indeed hard to take. But looking at the bigger picture is that we are still up .

Could i share a sercret with you guys with penetration in the UK.

So after the shuffle, they have a card at the back and then give you a card to cut, what you do here is cut to the front to like 1 deck or just under, most dealer then will put the deck to thr back and just leave the back card as is. So affectivly what u have made the pene to 1 deck or just under .

look for lazy dealer they will alway do that. It worked a treat here.

As for norm tho, the games I play usually have under a deck behind the cut card!

Ming