ultimate edge

[QFIT]

This is clarified in other parts of the law. Most laws like this have definition sections. See for Nevada Gambling Laws for the general laws.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by QFIT

This is clarified in other parts of the law. Most laws like this have definition sections. See for Nevada Gambling Laws for the general laws.

thank you.

errhh of course now i'm even more confused.
from the link above, i suppose what you refer to is at least in part the following:

NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:

(a) The result of a game;

(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;

(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or

(d) The value of a wagering credit.

2. The words and terms defined in chapter 463 of NRS have the meanings ascribed to them in that chapter.

(Added to NRS by 1981, 1292; A 1993, 830; 1995, 1502)

well, hecky darn, correct me if i'm wrong, doesn't just plain ole basic strategy do that?
and hell the casino will even sell you and allow you to use a basic strategy card at the table.
the card isn't a device?

[QFIT]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

well, hecky darn, correct me if i'm wrong, doesn't just plain ole basic strategy do that?
and hell the casino will even sell you and allow you to use a basic strategy card at the table.
the card isn't a device?

No, you are not modifying any of the criteria. Obviously, how you play affects your chances. If you play Poker well, you are more likely to win. Being good at a game isn't cheating. Marking the cards, pulling an ace out of your shoe or collusion is as you are changing the odds of the game itself.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by QFIT

No, you are not modifying any of the criteria. Obviously, how you play affects your chances. If you play Poker well, you are more likely to win. Being good at a game isn't cheating. Marking the cards, pulling an ace out of your shoe or collusion is as you are changing the odds of the game itself.

right no argument for the most part on that stuff.
except with out getting overly complicated and i realize this can get completely ridiculous but i'll go a step further on this for just one point.

that being the question of altering method of selection.

certainly basic strategy does that, no?
and as you say how you play affect your chances.
if i have a poor memory or i am to lazy to memorize basic strategy and i use a bs card, am i not using a device?

is it simply that the gaming commissions who have authority over these matters and allow such use?

[Pro21]

The way the cheating laws are written you could be arrested for cheating for walking into a casino with a pencil in your pocket, not to mention a phone, palm pilot, or wrist watch.

[QFIT]

A BS chart is not a device that aides:

1. In projecting the outcome of the game;
2. In keeping track of the cards played;
3. In analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. In analyzing the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,


The analysis and calculations have already taken place. It is merely a summary, and that is legal.

"Altering the method of selection" would mean dealing seconds.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Pro21

The way the cheating laws are written you could be arrested for cheating for walking into a casino with a pencil in your pocket, not to mention a phone, palm pilot, or wrist watch.

there you go, ok, just me maybe, it is i guess like any law some one wants to write down, then you have some one (probably a lawyer) looking over your shoulder and they want to argue about it, lmao.

just me maybe, but some of this casino law stuff seems clear and others of it seems confusing.

what ever, say you end up in court, some one is gonna say yea or nay on your actions, i guess.

probably discretion is the better part of valor, as they say, lol.

[QFIT]

By devices approved by the commission, the law is mostly talking about devices used by the casino. There's a 22 page document detailing the use of devices by the casino. For patrons, essentially optical and computing devices are not allowed. Mobile phones were disallowed for a while in Sportsbooks. I believe they are now OK.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by QFIT

A BS chart is not a device that aides:

1. In projecting the outcome of the game;
2. In keeping track of the cards played;
3. In analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. In analyzing the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,


The analysis and calculations have already taken place. It is merely a summary, and that is legal.

by game does this mean 'one play' or 'one hand' only?
i dunno, i'll let it go, lol.
just to my mind basic strategy does all the above (even #2), really even if it's only 'one play' or 'one hand'.

really i don't see how using a computer would be so much different.
if i have trouble counting cards because of a disability of some sort, what would be so wrong about using a computer?
would the American's with Disabilities act help? lol.

just an interested party here, lol, i'll defer to your obviously more schooled opinion, QFIT.

i just wonder how a jury of my peers would view it.

"Altering the method of selection" would mean dealing seconds.

not method of selection as pertaining to selection of what action to take, then. hmm, clear as mud imho.

[Pro21]

The laws were written by the NV casinos back in the 80s and they wanted them as broad as possible. Most states then just copied the NV laws. The law would probably not stand up as constitutional but no one is going to spend the money to test it.

You can say a cell phone is legal, but try using that iphone app for counting cards and see how fast they whisk you to the slammer.