First back off.

#1
"You may play any of our other games sir" the polite supervisor said to me early early this am.

I thanked him, went to rest room, took a deep breath and left the casino.

3:2, Double any two cards, one card on split aces, DAS, H17. $5.00 min, $300.00 max.

Here's what happened. Starting at about 2am I hit the six deck shoes heads up. Wed eve being a slow night as usual. Largely betting small cover bets: Ie, short stacks of reds occasionally single red chip when deck below neutral. Neutral defined as zero but still giving away a house edge.

When not having an advantage I was typically doubling or tripling very small initial wagers but making the stacks seem to be similar in height as in higher counts when I dropped a single red on top of a stack of greens. If my doubling won or lost I returned to the baseline low five buck minimum.I didn't wave many black chips around.

OK so it took me three friggin shoes to get a decent high count about 2/3rds the way through the shoe. The reason i don't like six deck shoes: Time wasters. But anyway since I had been playing two and three spots (rarely) it had created the precedent of multiple hands. And I really creamed that shoe. About a $900.00 profit from that shoe alone.

Hey, it was FUN!

OK now maybe I should have gone home but the dealer, a hot twenty something winked at me and said: "Let's just play just one shoe more again".

How could i say no?

Well about halfway into another six deck shoe the floor super starts milling around. He acts like he knows me and asks if I'm having a good time. I decide not to lie and say something like "the cards have been good to me". All done in fake drunken accent.

For the resident idiots here: This is my cover: A Dumb, drunken Irishman.

Suddenly the count drops like a rock. I don't even bother to calculate the true negative count as it was like -22 after i lose the count staring at the gorgeous rack above the hands dealing the cards...

Be that as it may I decide to pull a cover play with the floor super sitting on my left. My plan was to look stupid and then quickly leave with the money i made from the previous shoe. I put twenty dollars on three spots. Looks (and is) a real idiot's play. She deals:

She's holding a ten up card and I get three stiffs! I get the feeling that her hole card has to be low. So just for the hell of it I double ALL my three stiffs! $120 dollars on the table instead of sixty at three spots. She's probably gonna have to hit her hand what with the count maybe near minus 24, and I'm thinking that my chances of going bust are low. Why not have a little fun?

"If this works I'm goin home" I said to her. Loud enough for not only her super but the whole room to hear.

Son of a bitch! I get an eighteen, twenty and a twenty one!

Her hole card is a deuce to make twelve. she hits:

Deuce, deuce, eight! and busts.

Game put on hold, major conference "at the mound" the result of which is:

"You may play any of our other games sir". I don't argue but continue to mumble in drunken tongue, while he rambles on:

"Your game is a little too strong for our little room sir. But please feel free to play any of the other games here".

I think he was sorry to see me leave!

The dealer almost breaks into tears begging the super to "give him another chance". I'd been tipping the blond decently in the hour preceding.

But it was time to leave.
 
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#2
Irish

AnIrishmannot2brite said:
"You may play any of our other games sir" the polite supervisor said to me early early this am.

I thanked him, went to rest room, took a deep breath and left the casino.

3:2, Double any two cards, one card on split aces, DAS, H17. $5.00 min, $300.00 max.

Here's what happened. Starting at about 2am I hit the six deck shoes heads up. Wed eve being a slow night as usual. Largely betting small cover bets: Ie, short stacks of reds occasionally single red chip when deck below neutral. Neutral defined as zero but still giving away a house edge.

When not having an advantage I was typically doubling or tripling very small initial wagers but making the stacks seem to be similar in height as in higher counts when I dropped a single red on top of a stack of greens. If my doubling won or lost I returned to the baseline low five buck minimum.I didn't wave many black chips around.

OK so it took me three friggin shoes to get a decent high count about 2/3rds the way through the shoe. The reason i don't like six deck shoes: Time wasters. But anyway since I had been playing two and three spots (rarely) it had created the precedent of multiple hands. And I really creamed that shoe. About a $900.00 profit from that shoe alone.

Hey, it was FUN!

OK now maybe I should have gone home but the dealer, a hot twenty something winked at me and said: "Let's just play just one shoe more again".

How could i say no?

Well about halfway into another six deck shoe the floor super starts milling around. He acts like he knows me and asks if I'm having a good time. I decide not to lie and say something like "the cards have been good to me". All done in fake drunken accent.

For the resident idiots here: This is my cover: A Dumb, drunken Irishman.

Suddenly the count drops like a rock. I don't even bother to calculate the true negative count as it was like -22 after i lose the count staring at the gorgeous rack above the hands dealing the cards...

Be that as it may I decide to pull a cover play with the floor super sitting on my left. My plan was to look stupid and then quickly leave with the money i made from the previous shoe. I put ten dollars on three spots. Looks (and is) a real idiot's play. She deals:

She's holding a ten up card and I get three stiffs! I get the feeling that her hole card has to be low. So just for the hell of it I double ALL my three stiffs! Sixty dollars on the table instead of thirty at three ten spots. She's probably gonna have to hit her hand what with the count maybe near minus 24, and I'm thinking that my chances of going bust are low. Why not have a little fun?

"If this works I'm goin home" I said to her. Loud enough for not only her super but the whole room to hear.

Son of a bitch! I get an eighteen, twenty and a twenty one!

Her hole card is a deuce to make twelve. she hits:

Deuce, deuce, eight! and busts.

Game put on hold, major conference "at the mound" the result of which is:

"You may play any of our other games sir". I don't argue but continue to mumble in drunken tongue, while he rambles on:

"Your game is a little too strong for our little room sir. But please feel free to play any of the other games here".

I think he was sorry to see me leave!

The dealer almost breaks into tears begging the super to "give him another chance". I'd been tipping the blond decently in the hour preceding.

But it was time to leave.
Sorry to hear that you were barred from BJ.

That was not even a very exceptional game. But that trible double at the end probably did it:laugh: And the late night with the attention focused on you.

Hey man, you died with your boots on, there is much honor in that.:)

CP
 
#5
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
She's holding a ten up card and I get three stiffs! I get the feeling that her hole card has to be low. So just for the hell of it I double ALL my three stiffs! $120 dollars on the table instead of sixty at three spots. She's probably gonna have to hit her hand what with the count maybe near minus 24, and I'm thinking that my chances of going bust are low. Why not have a little fun?

"If this works I'm goin home" I said to her. Loud enough for not only her super but the whole room to hear.

Son of a bitch! I get an eighteen, twenty and a twenty one!

Her hole card is a deuce to make twelve. she hits:

Deuce, deuce, eight! and busts.

Game put on hold, major conference "at the mound" the result of which is:

"You may play any of our other games sir". I don't argue but continue to mumble in drunken tongue, while he rambles on:

"Your game is a little too strong for our little room sir. But please feel free to play any of the other games here".
Henceforth, that move will be called Irish Camouflage. zg
 

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
#6
I think your cover was too obvious. Who doubles a stiff? You had $900 in front of you already; the triple double on clearly bad hands while the pit critter *just happened* to be there... probably too obvious. The fact that you won them obviously didn't help.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#7
Sorry to hear about your back off Irish, but really don't find it that surprising. In your other post (another winning session@ 6-5) you wrote "it took me a while to develope a plan of attack and it involves a few camouflage plays to disguise a huge betting spread", and "I succeeded largely because I went unnoticed". As you now see, a 30-1 betting spread rarely goes unnoticed.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#10
You know the old saying - if you're not backed off once in a while, you're leaving money on the table.

You were probably made before your cover plays. Either that or management is so stupid, they back off losers who happen to win once in a while.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#11
21forme said:
You know the old saying - if you're not backed off once in a while, you're leaving money on the table.

You were probably made before your cover plays. Either that or management is so stupid, they back off losers who happen to win once in a while.
My backoffs usually occur from/because of a previous visit.
 
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WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#12
Congrats on your first one. I remember my first back off and I loved every second of it. People dream of beating the casino, and most fail. It's a great feeling to know that you actually have an advantage over the house; a feat that very few can lay claim to.

Just don't go back there for a month or two. Go on some other crew's shift. These backing offs, especially at the "little card rooms" like you described in your story, rarely stick. And remember don't ever use a players card at this place again.
 

LIB

Active Member
#14
WABJ11 said:
Congrats on your first one. I remember my first back off and I loved every second of it. People dream of beating the casino, and most fail. It's a great feeling to know that you actually have an advantage over the house; a feat that very few can lay claim to.
I've read sentiments along this line expressed on this site from time to time, and I never really understood the reason behind it. Why is this an occasion to congratulate? If anything isn't this a wake up call to amend the game plan (assuming there was in fact such)? Despite the cumbersome process and the fact that this cumbersome process is merely an emulation, it's not impossible to check the skill level. Furthermore, even if a back-off was such an accurate sign of ability, it's black and white at its best; it doesn't indicate how much. I just don't grasp this line of thinking.
 

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#15
LIB said:
I've read sentiments along this line expressed on this site from time to time, and I never really understood the reason behind it. Why is this an occasion to congratulate? If anything isn't this a wake up call to amend the game plan (assuming there was in fact such)? Despite the cumbersome process and the fact that this cumbersome process is merely an emulation, it's not impossible to check the skill level. Furthermore, even if a back-off was such an accurate sign of ability, it's black and white at its best; it doesn't indicate how much. I just don't grasp this line of thinking.
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to get across. So forgive me if this response doesn't make sense.

But doesn't the casino asking a patron to leave because "hes to good" sort of imply that you have the ability to take their money? Obviously this isn't a forensic examination of an BJ player's skill level, but it says something.
 

LIB

Active Member
#16
I see what you mean, and I do agree with you somewhat in that being backed off indicates a level of skill to a degree. What I don't comprehend is the bouncy sentiment underneath it. The "certificate" in the form of a back-off undoubtedly comes with a price. If there were a way to check your technical foundations that not only measures frequency but also magnitude of weak spots without a back-off, wouldn't you want to take that road? Another thing is that while a back-off may or may not show level of competence, it's a definite confirmation that either the act or the game plan is flawed. So now what. "The one charm of the past is that it is the past." What's done is done. We fix what we can. There's no guarantee, but we could try. These two are what I meant.
 

Preston

Well-Known Member
#17
Judging by this story, and having worked in casinos before I can tell you the thing that probably hinted them was your hot shoe, but the icing on the cake was doubling down 3 stiffs.

A lot of dealers/pit bosses thing that AP's memorize cards or just plain old know what card is coming next. Double three stiffs, two of which draw to 21 was the equivalent of setting of a flare that says 'CARD COUNTER!!!!!!'

You have to learn how to cover. Acting like a drunk irishman may be legit, but it is also cliche.

The best cover you can have was what you were doing with the dealer -- tipping and being friendly.

At my home casino, there is someone I know who works in surveillance. A few years ago I TAUGHT them how to count cards (prior to getting that job.. I never expected them to ''sell out' to the dark side) I even sold them an extra blackjack shoe and discard tray so they could practice. There are also a few dealers who I used to work with there that know as well. They haven't ratted on me so long as I never play at their table.

But I also go out of my way to look like a compulsive gambler. I press bets. Bet heavy off the top. I've even self-excluded myself in the past. This shows up every time I hand them my players card.

Don't worry about being backed off -- at the rate new casinos are opening up you will always be able to find a game. And if you're really worried about it, you can always find someone else's players card in a slot machine somewhere. Just hope it isn't a regular.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#18
Preston - Long time, no talk. Nice to see you back. In case you don't remember, we met up at your casino about 2.5 years ago...
 
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