Down 1000 units in 200 hr of counting

Yes, that's right.
I lost 1000 units (50% of my bankroll) using Hi-Lo with Illustrious 18 in exactly 200 hrs of counting/ 3 month period. I lost my last 5 sessions in a row playing about 50 hrs and losing 500 units! I thought i won my last session (was up about 70 units) but in my last hour of the session while playing heads up i found myself in RC of 25+ with 2.5 decks remaining. lost 60 units in that shoe alone (i would have lost more like 100-150 units if i hadn't downsize my max bets due to me getting constant stiffs after stiffs while dealer had always 20).
I'm beggining to seriously doubt the validity of Hi-Lo as a good counting method. Its about time for me to start learning level II count such as Zen. What's your opinion? thanks

It sounds perfectly normal. The reason you need such a big bankroll is that you can be expected to lose a large fraction of it before you win. It happens to all of us.

If you had dropped your bets out of fear or disgust with your results, you're not prepared to count at all. You can't do that, it's throwing money away. Those big bets on high counts are what you are playing for.

What was your total BR size and top bet and spread and game approach (wong/play-all)? zg

have you analyzed the game you are playing for SCORE and N0? how deep is the penetration? S17 or H17? LS? I was considering moving to a level II count before I looked at the games I was playing and found that they weren't very good at all and was inducive to large swings and long sessions before seeing a profit. I'm not saying don't learn a better count, just look at everything first before you stop playing to take the time and effort to learn a new count.

Monkey says its normal. lol But sounds like a pretty good spanking that you have been taking to me. Of course without knowing more details about your betting spread and ramp and types of games you have been playing, I don't think anyone can say for sure.

But what makes you think you would have fared any different with a level 2 count. A level 2 count may have identified a few more positive situations than hi-lo, but you still would have gotten those same crappy cards with your big bets out. Your results would still be very similar, I'm afraid.

total BR of 2000 units (1 unit = $100), top bet 12-16 units , spread of 1-16, wong out TC -1.5. rules are 6 Deck, S17, DAS, LS & RSA.

I used to play Double Deck game when i started counting and i was doing fairly well until i got my first ban and second ban. From then on, i'm very uncomfortable playing Double Deck game with hawkish staring from the PC's. so i switched to 6 deck games where i lost 1000 units in 200 hr of play.

Most of my big loss came from playing heads-up against the dealer on extremely high counts (TC +7 ~ +12). My question is, can i spread to 2 hands of (bet x 1.5/2) even though some people say never play two hands when playing head up?
thanks

Rules are 6 decks, S17, LS, RSA with 1.5 ~1.2 deck remaining. standard vegas strip rule. I think Hi-lo 's 51% playing efficiency is basically a toin coss. if you aren't lucky on those high counts you are toast!

I get SCORE of minimum 80 using hi-low + illustrious 18 + Fab 4.
many times playing two hands when there is at least one other player in the table and wong out at TC -1.5
I leave the table/casino after placing 4-5 consecutive max bets no matter the outcome of the hands.

I spread to 2 hands as much as possible when the count is such that I have max bet out. It helps tremendously with variance. You will have alot of times that you win 1 hand and lose 1 hand, and the swings will be less severe. But there are also those times that the dealer continually pulls 20 and 21 and in those cases you just end up losing faster, but all in all it reduces variance. Only you can tell what kind of heat you are getting and whether it is worth the risk to go to two hands.

Maybe if i was using level II at that time, the count wasn't that high at all (with still plenty of 4,5,6's left in the deck !)

I don't understand this statement about leaving after 4-5 max bets. You aren't walking away when the count is still high, just because you have played 4 or 5 hands at max bet are you? Those situations are what counting is all about. You never want to leave prematurely. Finish the shoe and then leave.

It seems pretty natural for them (pc & dealer) when i lose my max bet that i switch to two hands to alter the flow. Before i was very reluctant to play two hands on a high count when playing 1 on 1 against dealer. But that's how i lost most of my bankroll doing 1 on 1 not spreading to two hands. Maybe i should change that now.

off course after the shoe is finished and dealer starts shuffling the cards, i'm out of there!

A level 1 and level 2 count are going to identify the same betting situation most of the time. Level 2 is just a hair more acurate. But if hi-lo true count is +8 and tells you to place your max bet, a level 2 count is going to be equally as high and tell you the same thing.

Then how about Level III system such as Uston APC for example?
I mean instead of trying to make the biggest money on the biggest count, why not improve the playing efficency and beat the dealer on a moderate/negative count as well ?

I hear the distinct sound of a can of worms being opened. :laugh:

Don't Do It

Bad, bad, bad Idea.

What you propose can't happen on a 6-deck play-all without an unrealistic bet spread and 100's of indeces.

Adopt a level II count.

Don't play all.

Play 2 hands.

Wong in.

Of course you could go that way. I wouldn't recomment it though. But staying on topic of your thread, If you lost 1000 units in 200 hours of play. Those losses are the result of what happened during the high count max bet oportunities and most counts regardless of level would have identified those same situations as max bet situations and your losses after 200 hours would be similar. You suggested in your first post in this thread that your results may have been different (better) had you used a level 2 count instead of hi-lo and that just isn't the case. Maybe a higher level count would have identified less situations and you would only be down 980 or 960 units or maybe you would be down even more 1020, 1050, but your losses would have been similar with a different count is all I was trying to say. If you think that instead of being down 1000 units you would be even or ahead had you used a level 2 or level 3 count, you are way off base.

Also I don't mean to be critical of you nor judge you, but it is pretty clear from your posts that you are ill prepared both in knowledge and probably skill level for what you are doing. You must have an understanding of what you are doing and what the expectations should be and a complete game plan on how to get there.

True

Sorry for your loss. You are using a big unit of $100 and top at $1,600, so you are on a $100 min table? The game has good rules and probably 1.25 cut out, you have lost $10,000, I sure can see that happening...little consolation eh'

I find it funny, ha..ha.., that you are asking people here for their permission to move to two hands since you have read here that HU you are to only play 1 spot...do you have a mind...can you think for yourself...is it your money or the posters here??? Haven't you also read that some big names here...PRO's:gaga:,,,,,look at straight counting as not even being AP play and deride it as an activity,even referring to counters as worms in the mud:yikes:

On your DD problems I bet if we discussed that you may have approached that game wrong, maybe to greedy or obvious and that led to the back offs.

Remember the discussions about the "Long Run"??...how you will lose more bets with the high counts and you will win almost as many hands in - counts as in + counts??

The truth is that playing as you are told to play and betting the way you are told to bet is probably not going to cut it for you. You will now have to resize you bet 50% and if you keep going, as you have, soon you will lose all your bank...of course you can always get more money and just pray that you hit the "Long Run" very soon.

BTW, what is the shuffle like on this 6d??

Why are you playing? Have you nothing better to do with the $20,000 so you decided to play BJ? Are you bored? Depressed? Are you doing it because you need money and turned to BJ as a Hail Mary move? How long have you been playing? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you invest in stocks..CD, bonds??

Do you really know how to use LS, FA, are you sure you are not making mistakes??

I use Hi-LO, so do many others including many famous players..I know it gets the job done.

I think you should take a long hard look at how you are attacking that game,,and start thinking outside the box,,after all it is your money you are giving to the evil :devil: casino.

My Best,

CP

lol panther can you use anymore formatting?

Anyways TrueCount, if youre having problems and losing lots of money, why dont you play on the $5 or 10 tables for a while until you get some good practice and are not losing large percentages of your money. You say you practice 20 hours a week at home, but practicing at home is nothing like actually playing in the casino. So go play at the smaller tables until your an expert!