Hi Opt I vs. Hi-Lo

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#1
I'm trying to plan my attack on a 2 deck game. I'm proficient in counting Hi-Lo as well as Hi-Opt I. In addition I know all of the indices for Hi-Lo for a 6 deck game but does this change for a 2 deck game? For example in a 6 deck game we take insurance at +3 TC. Is that the same indice we use for a 2 deck game? Also does anyone know where I can find the indices for Hi Opt I? If they're the same as Hi-lo then I guess I wouldn't need them. Thanks for your help.
 

Meistro

Well-Known Member
#2
illustrious 18, hi opt 1, single deck

13 vs 2 -1
13 vs 3 -2
12 vs 2 +2
12 vs 3 +1
12 vs 4 0
12 vs 5 -1
12 vs 6 -3
16 vs 9 +4
16 vs X 0
15 vs X
9 vs 2 +1
9 vs 7 +3
10 vs X +5
10 vs A +4
11 vs A +1
XX vs 5, 6 +4

insurance +3 (this is for double deck, index is +2 for single deck)
 
#3
Thunder said:
I'm trying to plan my attack on a 2 deck game. I'm proficient in counting Hi-Lo as well as Hi-Opt I. In addition I know all of the indices for Hi-Lo for a 6 deck game but does this change for a 2 deck game? For example in a 6 deck game we take insurance at +3 TC. Is that the same indice we use for a 2 deck game? Also does anyone know where I can find the indices for Hi Opt I? If they're the same as Hi-lo then I guess I wouldn't need them. Thanks for your help.
Here's a fun trick: You need a sidecount of aces for HO1. Some people sidecount them alone, other people balance them against the 2's. But you can also count them against the 2's and 7's, and what you get is KO, which is a great thing for betting. You just add the running count of the HO1 to the running count of A's vs. 2&7, no true count conversion required for the betting part. It'll make it easier and probably a little more powerful.
 

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#4
Thunder said:
I'm trying to plan my attack on a 2 deck game. I'm proficient in counting Hi-Lo as well as Hi-Opt I. In addition I know all of the indices for Hi-Lo for a 6 deck game but does this change for a 2 deck game? For example in a 6 deck game we take insurance at +3 TC. Is that the same indice we use for a 2 deck game? Also does anyone know where I can find the indices for Hi Opt I? If they're the same as Hi-lo then I guess I wouldn't need them. Thanks for your help.
Hi-Opt I is a lousy count (sorry Igor), Hi-Lo is much better. if you want a great count for 2D games with a sligh increase in difficulty use Hi-Opt II (yay Igor)
 

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#5
Meistro said:
illustrious 18, hi opt 1, single deck

13 vs 2 -1
13 vs 3 -2
12 vs 2 +2
12 vs 3 +1
12 vs 4 0
12 vs 5 -1
12 vs 6 -3
16 vs 9 +4
16 vs X 0
15 vs X
9 vs 2 +1
9 vs 7 +3
10 vs X +5
10 vs A +4
11 vs A +1
XX vs 5, 6 +4
These indices are the same for DD. Also, I would start memorizing kinda from the bottom to top of this list in regards to the order of importance. Well, 16v10, 16v9, 15v10 are the ones you're gonna see the most, then the bottom half of the list, then the top half.

and who the hell is Igor?
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#7
Thunder said:
I'm trying to plan my attack on a 2 deck game. I'm proficient in counting Hi-Lo as well as Hi-Opt I. In addition I know all of the indices for Hi-Lo for a 6 deck game but does this change for a 2 deck game? For example in a 6 deck game we take insurance at +3 TC. Is that the same indice we use for a 2 deck game? Also does anyone know where I can find the indices for Hi Opt I? If they're the same as Hi-lo then I guess I wouldn't need them. Thanks for your help.
Don't you at least want to take a look at this particular game and determine if it is even playable before altering your whole approach? AM's early scouting seems to indicate it may not be, especially at crowded tables which it will be in ac. Most others (myself not included) seem to think this game will be long gone before january is gone. I guess we shall know for sure very shortly, although I suspect info shared will become tighter. lol
 
#8
FLASH1296 said:
The Hi-Opt I Indices are all in "The World's Greatest Blackjack Book"

find a cheap ($0.75) copy:

http://product.half.ebay.com/The-Worlds-Greatest-Blackjack-Book_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ172445

Hi-Opt I gets a bad rap; however, it was created with the specific intention of using multi-parameter Side Counts.

Aces and Sevens, of course, are the crucial ones.
To improve HO1, count 4-7 as low instead of 3-6. Indices will need to be recalculated.

Then count the ace vs. the 2 & 3 for your betting. The combined two-parameter system gives you the maximum possible BC, PE, and IC for a level 1 system.
 

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
#10
Automatic Monkey said:
To improve HO1, count 4-7 as low instead of 3-6. Indices will need to be recalculated.

Then count the ace vs. the 2 & 3 for your betting. The combined two-parameter system gives you the maximum possible BC, PE, and IC for a level 1 system.
I'm a little confused. How does counting the ace vs the 2 and 3 give you the highest possible BC?
 
#11
Deathclutch said:
I'm a little confused. How does counting the ace vs the 2 and 3 give you the highest possible BC?
Because when you add all the tags together, you get KO, which has the highest BC for a level 1 system.

Example: you are midway through a 2 deck game, your main running count is -2, your sidecount of A's vs. 2's and 3's is +4. Your TC for playing is -2, and your running count for betting is +2. You would bet the way you would bet if you were counting KO and the count was IRC+2.
 
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