Defining a good game

M

mleancole

Member
#1
#1
What measurable parameters do you use to define a good and worth playing game: penetration, win rate, player advantage (IBA)? Do you need to run a sim to make a decision?

I'm looking for an objective parameter to decide whether to play or not a certain game.
 
iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
The most important things that determine the goodness of a game are:

A)House Rules
B)Number of Decks
C)Penetration
D)Betting Strategy
E)Playing Strategy

Once you have those determined, you can determine the attractiveness of the game by using a simulator. Some of the more popular measures are SCORE or N0.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
iCountNTrack said:
The most important things that determine the goodness of a game are:

A)House Rules
B)Number of Decks
C)Penetration
D)Betting Strategy
E)Playing Strategy

Once you have those determined, you can determine the attractiveness of the game by using a simulator. Some of the more popular measures are SCORE or N0.
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I place penetration ahead of house rules, ICNT, simply because good pen can overcome some bad rules, but good rules can rarely overcome bad penetration. Ideally both. :)

I also would add "Heat" to the equation, because a game with decent rules and penetration doesn't mean much, if they won't allow you to spread much. (some sweaty downtown joints come to mind) :(
 
iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
kewljason said:
I place penetration ahead of house rules, ICNT, simply because good pen can overcome some bad rules, but good rules can rarely overcome bad penetration. Ideally both. :)
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I did not mean for the order i gave to list variables in decreasing importance. In any case i beg to differ, if we leave aside the iLoveThisCasino rules such as full ES, 5-card Charlie, 2-1 BJ payout, and stick with normal rules, a 6D game S17 DAS LS RSA with two decks cut out would still beat a 6D H17 DAS with 1 deck cut out.
 
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
iCountNTrack said:
a 6D game S17 DAS LS RSA with two decks cut out would still beat a 6D H17 DAS with 1 deck cut out.
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Based on my study, your statement is incorrect. The second game (H17 DAS, no LS or RSA) with 1 deck cut out has same SCORE.
 
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SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
psyduck said:
Based on my study, your statement is incorrect. The second game (H17 DAS, no LS or RSA) with 1 deck cut out has same SCORE.
Click to expand...
I use zen with ~65 indeces which includes ~15 surrender indeces.

Spreading 1-12, the
H17 DAS game gives me a SCORE of 27.42
S17 DAS LS RSA gives me a SCORE of 29.27

Spreading 1-16, the
H17 DAS game gives me a SCORE of 33.21
S17 DAS LS RSA gives me a SCORE of 32.94
 
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kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
SleightOfHand said:
I use zen with ~65 indeces which includes ~15 surrender indeces.

Spreading 1-12, the
H17 DAS game gives me a SCORE of 27.42
S17 DAS LS RSA gives me a SCORE of 29.27

Spreading 1-16, the
H17 DAS game gives me a SCORE of 33.21
S17 DAS LS RSA gives me a SCORE of 32.94
Click to expand...

My sim showed the two very close as well. It doesn't really matter, though, as apparently I failed to express myself clearly. I was trying to say that good penetration can overcome a bad rule like H17 or no surrender, ect, but that a good rule can't overcome bad penetration. ICNT took it to the extreme by comparing games with multiple rules that were better, which wasn't really my intent. I really wasn't saying that good pen can overcome a multitude of bad rules. But thats ok. ;)
 
iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
kewljason said:
My sim showed the two very close as well. It doesn't really matter, though, as apparently I failed to express myself clearly. I was trying to say that good penetration can overcome a bad rule like H17 or no surrender, ect, but that a good rule can't overcome bad penetration. ICNT took it to the extreme by comparing games with multiple rules that were better, which wasn't really my intent. I really wasn't saying that good pen can overcome a multitude of bad rules. But thats ok. ;)
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If you go back to your earlier post you did use "game rules" in plural :laugh:
I think you are just thinking in terms of the standard rules that you see in US casinos, but there are many "exotic" rules that would overcome bad penetration. It all depends on the goodness of the rule.
The whole point is not to make hasty generalizations, house rules, number of decks and penetration are all important. :)
 
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