how much chips do you buy in for?

B

Bondy3

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
I was playing at a $10 table, spreading 1x$10 to 2x$150 counting hi-lo on 6D, H17, DOA

When I sat down at the table i bought in with $100 and got some reds, When I lost them I dug out another $100 bill and bought more reds,

my chipstack stayed about the same untill the TC got higher and I split my chipstack into 2x$50 piles and played 2 hands, Ended up loosing both of them, so I threw $100 down again and played the next hand at 2x$50, After loosing that the TC was even higher so I through down $200 more and played 2x$100, and I lost 2 hands in a row like that, but the TC kept rising so I through in $300 and played a hand at 2x$150, There were 2 ploppies at the table who were flat betting $10, they must have thought I was going tilt crazy, I ended up loosing $1300 in the span of just a few minutes and the shoe ended. inside I was feeling a little sulky, but I stayed cheery on the outside, told everyone "well that was fun" in a cheery voice and then I got up and walked away because I had only brought like $1300 with me and I lost it all.

During the time when I was loosing, after I had thrown down like $800 one of the ploppies asked me what I do for a living that I can loose all this money and not care, I didn't want to tell her "i'm a Math major in collage and unemployed" so I made something up

it felt weird buying in for 1 hand at a time and I especially felt wierd when someone asked me what I do that I can throw around money like that, is there a recommended amount of chips that I should have kept buying? how many chips should I have bought when I first sat down at the table?

Im worried that when I sit at the table if I buy a ton of chips it will make me look like a counter, because who buys 1k with of chips and then flat bets $10 for 3 shoes in a row and then randomly after a bunch of low cards starts playing 2 hands at $100+

what do you guys do when it comes to buying chips?
 
S

shiznites

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Bondy3 said:
I was playing at a $10 table, spreading 1x$10 to 2x$150 counting hi-lo on 6D, H17, DOA

When I sat down at the table i bought in with $100 and got some reds, When I lost them I dug out another $100 bill and bought more reds,

my chipstack stayed about the same untill the TC got higher and I split my chipstack into 2x$50 piles and played 2 hands, Ended up loosing both of them, so I threw $100 down again and played the next hand at 2x$50, After loosing that the TC was even higher so I through down $200 more and played 2x$100, and I lost 2 hands in a row like that, but the TC kept rising so I through in $300 and played a hand at 2x$150, There were 2 ploppies at the table who were flat betting $10, they must have thought I was going tilt crazy, I ended up loosing $1300 in the span of just a few minutes and the shoe ended. inside I was feeling a little sulky, but I stayed cheery on the outside, told everyone "well that was fun" in a cheery voice and then I got up and walked away because I had only brought like $1300 with me and I lost it all.

During the time when I was loosing, after I had thrown down like $800 one of the ploppies asked me what I do for a living that I can loose all this money and not care, I didn't want to tell her "i'm a Math major in collage and unemployed" so I made something up

it felt weird buying in for 1 hand at a time and I especially felt wierd when someone asked me what I do that I can throw around money like that, is there a recommended amount of chips that I should have kept buying? how many chips should I have bought when I first sat down at the table?

Im worried that when I sit at the table if I buy a ton of chips it will make me look like a counter, because who buys 1k with of chips and then flat bets $10 for 3 shoes in a row and then randomly after a bunch of low cards starts playing 2 hands at $100+

what do you guys do when it comes to buying chips?
Click to expand...
You need a good act - fortunately, its really easy to act like a hyper crazy compulsive gambler. Remember, its completely normal and expected to act irritated and crazy if your losing!

Buying in for a hundred is fine, but if you know the count is up there and rising, buy in for 200. I wouldn't exceed 200, but thats just me..
 
M

matt21

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
bondy3, you raised a couple of good questions.

firstly spreading 1x10-2x150 is very aggressive - do be careful to assess potential heat.

yes you need to be able to explain why you can afford to bet the money you are betting. people will assume that, if you buy in for $1,000 in the way that you did, you are able to not care about losing it. So in turn they will try to visualize how much you are earning in order to afford it. This will look even more questionable if you are young or young-looking.

Ideas:
"My family is wealthy."
"I won a lot playing poker."
"I sold my car recently."
"Actually, I can't afford it. I probably have a gambling problem."
"I run an online basis selling ...."

The more details you can provide, and the more natural it comes across, the more believable your story will become.

In terms of buy-in, you should observe how other people buy in in relation to their bet size. Do green chippers buy in for $500, red chippers for $100 etc etc. Adjust yourself to each joint. As an example I often buy in for say $800 or $1,000 and then open with $25 or $50 and play until i lose it all before buying in for more. However I carry a lot more in my pockets. You do not want to run out of cash when the TC is +6 and you have 4 rounds to go!!
I think part of your problem in getting your buy-in right has to do with your very aggressive spread.

Dont be afraid to act mad when you are losing. I often bang the tables and swear on occasion - and get the odd 'please don't do that again, Sir'. But with me the anger is actually very genuine :grin:

hope that helps a little.
good luck!
Matt21
 
Finn Dog

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Bondy3 said:
it felt weird buying in for 1 hand at a time...
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Bondy3: this particular dilemma stems from the fact that you're spreading 1:30--which is very aggressive of course.

A good rule-of-thumb is to buy in for 20 units. This leaves you free to always pull out the same amount (which gives you breathing room when you're spreading in a normal range).

In general, Pit Bosses love to see people continually going to the well--they love chronic losers.

Bondy3 said:
Im worried that when I sit at the table if I buy a ton of chips it will make me look like a counter, because who buys 1k with of chips and then flat bets $10 for 3 shoes in a row and then randomly after a bunch of low cards starts playing 2 hands at $100+
Click to expand...
100 units is indeed a red flag. Big buy-ins attract attention by themselves--let alone flat betting thereafter for 3 shoes till raising as you cited.

Best regards,

FD
 
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B

Bondy3

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Finn Dog said:
Bondy3: this particular dilemma stems from the fact that you're spreading 1:30--which is very aggressive of course.

A good rule-of-thumb is 20 units. This leaves you free to always pull out the same amount (which gives you breathing room when you're spreading in a normal range).
Click to expand...
when you say a good rule of thumb is 20 units do you mean a 20 unit spread? like I should go between betting 10$ to 2x$100?
 
Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
I buy in small. Usually 4 units if I'm playing DD. This way if a shoe goes negative I have an excuse to leave. Shoe goes positive I'll rebuy for more.
 
Finn Dog

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Bondy3 said:
when you say a good rule of thumb is 20 units do you mean a 20 unit spread? like I should go between betting 10$ to 2x$100?
Click to expand...
No, I meant buy in for 20 units at a time.

If you lose that, repeat. Pit Bosses love to see repeat buy ins from someone they perceive as a chronic loser. But don't overstay your welcome either; keep your sessions short.

FD
 
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somtum

somtum

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
shiznites said:
You need a good act - fortunately, its really easy to act like a hyper crazy compulsive gambler. Remember, its completely normal and expected to act irritated and crazy if your losing!
Click to expand...

Also, it helps to play at a table full of loud drunk ploppies.

The other day I played at a table with the loudest drunks ever... mostly one fellow in particular making the noise. The dealer even had to put earplugs in her ears to continue dealing. There was probably a span of about 1 hour where the pit boss didn't even look at our table.
 
S

Seaclusion

Active Member
#10
#10
The other day I made two giant mistakes that cost me a great game. First, I bought into a three dollar table with $100 (actually I came to the table with some chips but had to buy more). That immediately got the PC's attention and he continued to eye me except for the times he was called away and then it was right back to eyeing me. My mistake was buying in with too much money for what the normal ploppy was buying in for which was $20 - $60. Second mistake was sitting through 13 losing hands in a row because the count was positive. No one sits through that many losses in a row.

When the shoe ran out I noticed that the DD 5 dollar table cleared out so I moved there. It was in the same pit so the PC moved right over and continued watching me. I got three shoes with 90% pen and made my losses back and about $100. Then they changed dealers and I got 50% pen. I had been spotted and so as to not overstay my welcome I left.

From now on, I will buy in low and according to what the table minimum is.
 
R

REI_REBO

Banned
#11
#11
Finn Dog said:
No, I meant buy in for 20 units at a time.

If you lose that, repeat. Pit Bosses love to see repeat buy ins from someone they perceive as a chronic loser. But don't overstay your welcome either; keep your sessions short.

FD
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this is what i do also



and on DD BJ no shoe

i just dont ****ing bet the first hand...... ill sit there and tell people im werid and kiss my bible 3 times befor i go to bed and when i get out of a car i out my right foot on the ground first or some BS


then ill sit there and just ****ing wait

till the count goes up a lil


but i buy in with 20...

i try to sit at a 5 dollar table

when the count is high that doesnt mean ima bet the whole 20

i only bring like 50 bucks with me to count n play at a 5 dollar table

when i get rolling ill bet 10 when the count is up



to be honest with the origninal poster

i wish i had a 100 to buy in with lol and could lose it and not care


to be even more honest with you im in casinos alot

when i see people betting like that at a 5/10 dollar table even 50 bucks a hand

i start to see like a hook go into them or something they always start betting like crazed fools


im not calling you that tho becuase you count ur not the average BJ player..



my question for you is why would u bet that high ?

are u trying to count and get like in and out of the table in an hour or so ?


if so that makes sense but for the amount of time i spend there that would be so aggressive they would defiantly toss my ass out unless i was losing lol.


my next question is when u bring that 1300 how much do u normaly expect to bring home if things go not to crazy and as u planned (when i say not to crazy i mean both ways not winning every hand or losing every hand just steady and good) ?
 
B

Bondy3

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
REI_REBO said:
i just dont ****ing bet the first hand...... ill sit there and tell people im werid and kiss my bible 3 times befor i go to bed and when i get out of a car i out my right foot on the ground first or some BS


then ill sit there and just ****ing wait

till the count goes up a lil


but i buy in with 20...

i try to sit at a 5 dollar table

when the count is high that doesnt mean ima bet the whole 20

i only bring like 50 bucks with me to count n play at a 5 dollar table

when i get rolling ill bet 10 when the count is up



to be honest with the origninal poster

i wish i had a 100 to buy in with lol and could lose it and not care


to be even more honest with you im in casinos alot

when i see people betting like that at a 5/10 dollar table even 50 bucks a hand

i start to see like a hook go into them or something they always start betting like crazed fools


im not calling you that tho becuase you count ur not the average BJ player..



my question for you is why would u bet that high ?

are u trying to count and get like in and out of the table in an hour or so ?


if so that makes sense but for the amount of time i spend there that would be so aggressive they would defiantly toss my ass out unless i was losing lol.


my next question is when u bring that 1300 how much do u normaly expect to bring home if things go not to crazy and as u planned (when i say not to crazy i mean both ways not winning every hand or losing every hand just steady and good) ?
Click to expand...
First, if your only bringing $50 to a casino, the benefit of counting cards just isnt worth it.

I always play the first hand, if I am spreading 20:1 or so (and I like spreading 20:1) then I see no reason to wong out or skip hands even if the count is bad, because when its good the amount im betting makes up for whatever my loss in EV was when the count was bad, just today I was at a point were the TC was -8 but I still kept playing the table min. just because I dont like wonging

Why do I bet that high? because its fun, and its exciting to see money comming and going really fast like that, Today I placed a $250 bet, I got 8's, I split them, got 11 on both of em, doubled both (so I had $1000) on the table as ONE bet, and neither of them made 21 and the dealer ended up getting 21 and I lost $1000 in one hand, that was without a doubt the worst loss I have ever had in BJ, but its still fun to bet high like that.

I dont normally bring $1300, I just brought $1300 that one time, Today I brought like $3000, it just depends on how much cash I have at the time.

I have only counted cards for a short period of time so I don't know what I should expect to bring back with me, I have only counted cards for a total of 45 hours, so im still in the short run and I dont know how well I should expect to do. but I hope I do well :)
 
J

Johnny Vegas

Member
#13
#13
For me it depends I guess on if I'm able to wong in or starting off a fresh shoe and seeing how it goes. Not to mention table minimums. My trip last week (which I'll post about later) I would buy in for 2-300 on $15 min tables and a $5 I bought in for 100, was $15 betting while the count rose then started dropping $25-50. Worked pretty well.

Then there was the guy who was just chunking down blacks. Losing miserably, and playing bad to boot, got a 5K marker and said man, I'm down 25k over the last 2 days.:eek: Obviously if you're dropping that kind of coin you've got the means to replenish it, so can't feel too bad for him.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Flash's (unsolicited) advice​

  • Have a huge bankroll or do not play.
  • Buy in for 20 units initially and add 10 units as needed.
  • Nothing works better at leaving an impression of being a chronic loser than frequent buy-ins.
  • Bet 2 x 2 units off the top and spread Up & Down from there.
  • Change your bet-sizing as infrequently as is comfortable.
  • Nearly all Card Counters are "made" due solely to their constantly adjusting their bet sizes.
  • Use a strong Level Two count and memorize a wide matrix of indices.
  • Toke frequently but in very tiny amounts whenever winning.
  • Your default is to avoid games that are barely marginally profitable.
  • To that end, fully understand concepts like "SCORE", R.O.R., etc.
  • Forego play when you detect "heat", or are playing less than optimally due to fatigue or any reason whatsoever.
 
Finn Dog

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
FLASH1296 said:
Flash's (unsolicited) advice​

Toke frequently but in very tiny amounts whenever winning.
Click to expand...
Flash:

If you're betting two hands of $50 units as a minimum, what would define as a tiny amount to tip on frequent tokes?

Best regards,

FD
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
If you are never wagering less than 2 x $50 you can just use red chips.

Spending 2 or 3 red chips per shoe when doing well you'll hardly feel.
 
Finn Dog

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
FLASH1296 said:
If you are never wagering less than 2 x $50 you can just use red chips.

Spending 2 or 3 red chips per shoe when doing well you'll hardly feel.
Click to expand...

So 2 or 3 red per shoe is frequent enough? That is, would it be better to get some white and toke 7 times at $2 a toke vs three $5 tokes?

Thanks again,

FD
 
Finn Dog

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
FLASH1296 said:
Flash's (unsolicited) advice​

  • Buy in for 20 units initially and add 10 units as needed.
Click to expand...

Flash: I know you're a proponent of 20 unit buy ins--but here's a scenario that's a bit of a conundrum:

Say you walk up to a $25 table, where everyone is playing $25 minimum units, but your intent is to play chunky green (namely $50 minimum units because there are no $50 tables open)--would you buy in for $500 (based off the table mimimum) or $1000 (based off the player's personal minimum)?

Best regards,

FD
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
All I can say to the OP is: "Well Played!". This is EXACTLY how you get away with a monster bet spread. To the pit it looks like you're playing some sort of bastardized Martingale system that was brought upon by anger. They just LOVE it whenever you can give them the perception that you're "throwing good money after bad". After the deck is through, you've had time to "regain your composure", which explains to them why you've dropped your bet back down.

Just don't overdo this act. You HAVE attracted some attention, and now that they know that you have the ability to "go off the deep end"; they WILL be watching you at least a LITTLE bit closer.

But you already knew all this.......:):)

P.S. As for the suggestion that you tell them that you may have a problem with gambling: Be careful with this one. In some states, New Jersey in particular; it's a state law that if the casino has reason to believe that you are a problem gambler, they are legally SUPPOSED to back you off from playing. (This will never happen in Nevada)
 
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