Is this game beatable?

#1
Wanted to get people's opinions on this, and would love it if anyone could run down the numbers on it.

First, the table rules: 2 decks, about 55%-60% pen, 3:2, H17, no DAS, no RSA, no surrender

Second, my strategy: BS, KO counting, spreading 1-6. I use all the advanced plays in the KO playbook -- insurance and variations from BS when appropriate based on the count.

One final note -- absolutely no heat. I've played this game a ton and have run into some wild swings, as expected. I religiously vary my bets based on the count and have never felt like I needed to disguise or lessen the ramp-up as the count increases. I'll happily go from 1 unit to 6 and back to 1 if the count dictates it, and I've never drawn any noticeable attention from the floor.

So there it is, I think I covered all the details. Any thoughts out there? Would also be curious about what BR you think it would take to have any hope of beating this table. Thanks in advance.
 
#3
Good point, I definitely make an effort to play heads-up or with just one other player there. I'll occasionally play 2 hands, too, if the count is high enough for me to raise my bets.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#4
Try spreading larger if you can as well. 1-6 isn't all that big and the super-high counts aren't going to come as frequently with that kind of spread. You want to be able to take advantage of those counts as best you can. Based on the rules and pen alone, that seems like an extremely weak game and you will want to strengthen your game as much as you can. Are there other games available to you?
 
#5
SleightOfHand said:
Try spreading larger if you can as well. 1-6 isn't all that big and the super-high counts aren't going to come as frequently with that kind of spread. You want to be able to take advantage of those counts as best you can. Based on the rules and pen alone, that seems like an extremely weak game and you will want to strengthen your game as much as you can. Are there other games available to you?
Yeah, the rules are definitely weak. Main reason I play it is because it's the only 3:2 DD game with better than 50% pen I've found in that area, at least at $25 or lower. But obviously I'm giving up a lot on the other rule changes.

I'll keep the bigger spread in mind, thanks for the advice.

I also wonder if, with these weak rules, it's worth playing at all.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#6
fce21 said:
Yeah, the rules are definitely weak. Main reason I play it is because it's the only 3:2 DD game with better than 50% pen I've found in that area, at least at $25 or lower. But obviously I'm giving up a lot on the other rule changes.

I'll keep the bigger spread in mind, thanks for the advice.

I also wonder if, with these weak rules, it's worth playing at all.
As a general rule, I would say that game is unplayable. If you have a multideck game availale to you, depending on general conditions, I would probably choose that over the DD most of the time.
 
#7
SleightOfHand said:
As a general rule, I would say that game is unplayable. If you have a multideck game availale to you, depending on general conditions, I would probably choose that over the DD most of the time.
That's what I figured. Shoe rules at the same place are 6/8D, DAS, surrender, ~75% pen. Don't remember if you can RSA.

The verdict seems to be that I should stick to shoe games at that place, or move on. I'm OK with that.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#8
fce21 said:
That's what I figured. Shoe rules at the same place are 6/8D, DAS, surrender, ~75% pen. Don't remember if you can RSA.

The verdict seems to be that I should stick to shoe games at that place, or move on. I'm OK with that.
Yea, I would definately choose the multideck game. Surrender is a very valueble rule for the CC. Used at the correct time, it provides a better EV and more importantly, it has 0 variance. If you have CVCX (which I suggest you should get at the minimum), you will be able to see that the WR/advantage for the DD game is extremely low, which will generate a high RoR. To strengthen the value of the multideck game, you can wong in and out to minimize playing negative counts. They also generally require bigger bet spreads to beat, so take that into consideration. Depending on your bankroll, the strategy that you utilize will change.
 
#9
SleightOfHand said:
Yea, I would definately choose the multideck game. Surrender is a very valueble rule for the CC. Used at the correct time, it provides a better EV and more importantly, it has 0 variance. If you have CVCX (which I suggest you should get at the minimum), you will be able to see that the WR/advantage for the DD game is extremely low, which will generate a high RoR. To strengthen the value of the multideck game, you can wong in and out to minimize playing negative counts. They also generally require bigger bet spreads to beat, so take that into consideration. Depending on your bankroll, the strategy that you utilize will change.
Got it. I've avoided getting CVCX for a long time but I may need to finally pull the trigger. Thanks again.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#10
fce21 said:
Got it. I've avoided getting CVCX for a long time but I may need to finally pull the trigger. Thanks again.
CVCX is an excellent tool. For any serious counter, CVCX (or something equivalent/better) is nearly a requirement (depending on your goals). Its a great tool to help compare games, determine optimal betting strategies, determine your risk, etc. It is an invalueble tool for sure.
 
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