Falsely accused of counting, what should I do?

Bondy3

Well-Known Member
#1
First of all, I do count cards, I have been doing it for about 5 weeks and I really like it,

but today when I went to a casino that I have been to once before, I decided to try Spanish 21 (I don't know basic strategy in Spanish 21 and I know its a -EV game)

I sat down at the table, Just me and the dealer, I noticed that the dealer was cutting to about 3/6 decks (HORRID penetration) but I was just playing to get the hang of playing so I didn't care as I wasn't planning on counting it.

because in S21 I don't know basic strategy (unlike in BJ) I was spending some time thinking about weather or not I was supposed to hit or stand or double or whatnot.

I entered mid shoe, (about 1 deck had been dealt) After I had played 4 hands the dealer asked me "are you thinking about how many low vs high cards have been delt?" I told him "no, Im trying to think of what move to make, Im used to playing Blackjack and Im no good at Spanish" He told me that the whole point in playing Spanish 21 is for the match the dealer bets, and If I dont want to make those bets I should go back to blackjack, I know the match the dealer bets have a house edge that is like 8* higher than the normal house edge for the game so I wasn't about to do that. I played with him for the remainder of the shoe, He kept giving me hints of what to do that were clearly NOT basic strategy (I know a bit of basic strategy, and you dont stand on a 12 vs a 8... ever)

After that shoe I moved over to Blackjack, they offer a semi alright DD game (but I have to share it with 4 other people so I only get 2 hands per shoe, and its %50 pen) the dealers in that casino rotate to different games every 30 minutes and in a hour the dealer that WAS dealing Spanish 21 to me was dealing in the DD blackjack game, I knew that he had marked me as a counter from the spanish 21 table (somehow, not sure how as I was flat betting the whole time and making basic strategy errors) and I placed a coupel $1 lucky ladies side bets just for cover. After he had been dealer to us for 10 minutes I sat out a hand (count was -1 but I wanted to get some water, plus I was flat betting) and he said to me "you don't like the count?" I said "Its fine, I want to get some water" and he said "Ive been dealing for longer than you've been alive, I can spot a player who doesn't play for recreation" I wanted to explain to him that I wasn't counting cards at his table for profit and even if I was it would have been impossible with less than %50 penetration and the house edge on the lucky ladies side bet would counter any edge I would have gotten.

I colored up and left soon after we had that little qualm, ($100 up, but it was pure luck as I know I was playing well below EV)

I know I should have left as soon as I was accused of counting but I figured it was so obvious that I wasn't it shouldn't have mattered.

What do you think that dealer was trying to go for? I was thinking he was trying to hustle tips but if I was playing for an edge and he wanted tips he would have cut the deck with deeper penetration. then I thought he was trying to put heat on me, but if he did it would have made me look even less like a counter because I was making the lucky ladies side bets and flat betting the table min. Then I thought he was just retarded, I settled with that one.
 
Last edited:

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#2
Nothing. He's full of $#it. Anyone who admits he's been dealing for 21 years plus (unless it's at a glitzy LV strip casino on the Saturday night shift) deserves to be pitied more than feared.

No disrespect to casino table staff intended, but dealing isn't exactly a career move, more a job you do before you get "serious" about work - or afterwards (ie retired from the rat-race and want something that generates a few bob each week).
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#3
wrong move my friend, when he is convinced you are doing it, he is not really convinced.

Just blood him with loads of Bull ****, keep telling loads of pissh, he'll get fed up real quick :D

Done it to a casino manager, keep trying to talk to us about winning strategy and ****, I just told, him a daft daft thing called the bank roll builders. Pure made up was so funny.

Ming
 

FreeStyle

Well-Known Member
#4
Bondy3 said:
After he had been dealer to us for 10 minutes I sat out a hand (count was -1 but I wanted to get some water, plus I was flat betting) and he said to me "you don't like the count?" I said "Its fine, I want to get some water" and he said "Ive been dealing for longer than you've been alive, I can spot a player who doesn't play for recreation" I wanted to explain to him that I wasn't counting cards at his table for profit and even if I was it would have been impossible with less than %50 penetration and the house edge on the lucky ladies side bet would counter any edge I would have gotten.
First off, yeah the dealer is a tool. I may be a total newbie when it comes the casino/blackjack realm but I do have a good sense for people.

When you said "It's (the count) fine..." that's basically like admitting you were counting. Even if you weren't he knows that you are on the up on what counting is all about. I would've just played dumb. I'm so good at this it's sick. Whether it comes to BS or knowing what counting is, everyone around me thinks I'm the dumbest dude around.

My advice would be to just take the dumb route. It's easy and it means you don't have to answer questions.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#5
The dealer is a moron. I suggest you call him a moron to his face, then complain to the pit boss about him. Tell the PB you are trying to have a little fun and this idiot is making all sorts of false accusations about you. The PB will know the game isn't countable. Odds are others have already complained about the guy.
 

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#6
Bondy3 said:
After I had played 4 hands the dealer asked me "are you thinking about how many low vs high cards have been delt?" I told him "no, Im trying to think of what move to make, Im used to playing Blackjack and Im no good at Spanish"
OK that was good.

Bondy3 said:
After he had been dealer to us for 10 minutes I sat out a hand (count was -1 but I wanted to get some water, plus I was flat betting) and he said to me "you don't like the count?" I said "Its fine...
You shouldn't have done that--never admit to knowing the count.


Bondy3 said:
I know I should have left as soon as I was accused of counting but I figured it was so obvious that I wasn't it shouldn't have mattered.
No, that shows you're guilty--do what 21forme said.


FD
 
#7
Bondy

Bondy3 said:
First of all, I do count cards, I have been doing it for about 5 weeks and I really like it,

but today when I went to a casino that I have been to once before, I decided to try Spanish 21 (I don't know basic strategy in Spanish 21 and I know its a -EV game)

I sat down at the table, Just me and the dealer, I noticed that the dealer was cutting to about 3/6 decks (HORRID penetration) but I was just playing to get the hang of playing so I didn't care as I wasn't planning on counting it.

because in S21 I don't know basic strategy (unlike in BJ) I was spending some time thinking about weather or not I was supposed to hit or stand or double or whatnot.

I entered mid shoe, (about 1 deck had been dealt) After I had played 4 hands the dealer asked me "are you thinking about how many low vs high cards have been delt?" I told him "no, Im trying to think of what move to make, Im used to playing Blackjack and Im no good at Spanish" He told me that the whole point in playing Spanish 21 is for the match the dealer bets, and If I dont want to make those bets I should go back to blackjack, I know the match the dealer bets have a house edge that is like 8* higher than the normal house edge for the game so I wasn't about to do that. I played with him for the remainder of the shoe, He kept giving me hints of what to do that were clearly NOT basic strategy (I know a bit of basic strategy, and you dont stand on a 12 vs a 8... ever)

After that shoe I moved over to Blackjack, they offer a semi alright DD game (but I have to share it with 4 other people so I only get 2 hands per shoe, and its %50 pen) the dealers in that casino rotate to different games every 30 minutes and in a hour the dealer that WAS dealing Spanish 21 to me was dealing in the DD blackjack game, I knew that he had marked me as a counter from the spanish 21 table (somehow, not sure how as I was flat betting the whole time and making basic strategy errors) and I placed a coupel $1 lucky ladies side bets just for cover. After he had been dealer to us for 10 minutes I sat out a hand (count was -1 but I wanted to get some water, plus I was flat betting) and he said to me "you don't like the count?" I said "Its fine, I want to get some water" and he said "Ive been dealing for longer than you've been alive, I can spot a player who doesn't play for recreation" I wanted to explain to him that I wasn't counting cards at his table for profit and even if I was it would have been impossible with less than %50 penetration and the house edge on the lucky ladies side bet would counter any edge I would have gotten.

I colored up and left soon after we had that little qualm, ($100 up, but it was pure luck as I know I was playing well below EV)

I know I should have left as soon as I was accused of counting but I figured it was so obvious that I wasn't it shouldn't have mattered.

What do you think that dealer was trying to go for? I was thinking he was trying to hustle tips but if I was playing for an edge and he wanted tips he would have cut the deck with deeper penetration. then I thought he was trying to put heat on me, but if he did it would have made me look even less like a counter because I was making the lucky ladies side bets and flat betting the table min. Then I thought he was just retarded, I settled with that one.
Bondy,

You are new and are giving tells, you need experience and the dealer read that. The dealer is funning with you, but never admit anything, never.

Get some kind of act going.

You will be OK.

CP
 

NchooseK

Active Member
#8
21forme said:
The dealer is a moron. I suggest you call him a moron to his face, then complain to the pit boss about him. Tell the PB you are trying to have a little fun and this idiot is making all sorts of false accusations about you. The PB will know the game isn't countable. Odds are others have already complained about the guy.
Ya definitely dont admit anything, but dont get angry or become offended either. Whenever he says something about you counting just laugh it off and play dumb. If you start calling him a moron and complaining to the PB it will only make you look more guilty. A normal person wouldnt get offended if you called him "smart," but they might think its funny if its not true.
 

Bondy3

Well-Known Member
#9
creeping panther said:
Bondy,

You are new and are giving tells, you need experience and the dealer read that. The dealer is funning with you, but never admit anything, never.

Get some kind of act going.

You will be OK.

CP
How can I know what sort of tells I am giving off? I dont want to give tells, but it was my 2nd time ever playing a DD pitch game and the change in basic stratagy between DD and 6D had me sorta overwhelmed, plus its harder to keep track in pitch games because the cards are delt face down.
 
#10
Bondy

Bondy3 said:
How can I know what sort of tells I am giving off? I dont want to give tells, but it was my 2nd time ever playing a DD pitch game and the change in basic stratagy between DD and 6D had me sorta overwhelmed, plus its harder to keep track in pitch games because the cards are delt face down.
Normal for an inexperienced pitch player to have a problem, it is a different world, shoe vs. pitch, just get alot of practice and study. There are some tricks involved, you will learn them.

CP
 
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