Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

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Old March 12th, 2010, 03:43 PM
itsedmondfoo itsedmondfoo is offline
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Default Casinos Rigging blackjack games?

I've been going to an Indian Casino and I'm wondering what if they rigged the decks? I play 6 deck and they never fan out the cards. I've been counting and I think it's pretty damn obvious that I'm doing it but they don't care. Could it be that they took out some aces or added some low cards knowing that counting will be useless?
  #2  
Old March 12th, 2010, 04:25 PM
Sucker Sucker is offline
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Most places that use multiple decks change the cards once a day, either when the table opens for the day, or if the table never closes;on Graveyard shift, when it's slow. Find out when they change them and make it a point to be there. I believe that you'll find that they DO fan the cards for all to see. I've only known ONE casino in my 35 years of playing that DIDN'T do this, and I played enough shoes in THAT place to be virtually certain that THEY didn't cheat anyway.

If you ARE correct and you HAVE found a casino that never shows the cards, that STILL doesn't mean much. Stand back and count down about 50 shoes, then average out the count at the end of the shoes. If you CONSISTENTLY get extremely high counts after a MINIMUM of 50 shoes, then and only then you MIGHT have something to worry about.

Personally, I think you're wasting your time even thinking about this. Even the Indian casinos all have some sort of gaming board that oversees the operations. To think that they would risk it all on such a small gain is almost ludicrous.
  #3  
Old March 12th, 2010, 04:51 PM
onetobet onetobet is offline
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What Indian casino u play at? Hard rock in Florida refuses to show you the cards even when they close the table. They say cards come pre shuffled and will never let you see them. I dont think they cheat. But count the fives. Pick out the five of hearts, clubs what ever you want. If in a 6 deck shoe more then 6 come out then you no for sure.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 04:56 PM
assume_R assume_R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetobet View Post
But count the fives. Pick out the five of hearts, clubs what ever you want. If in a 6 deck shoe more then 6 come out then you no for sure.
Yes you would that that assumes there are more of a certain card. If less than enough of a certain card are in the shoe, then you might (incorrectly) just attribute it to being behind the cut card.

Like Sucker said, if you average out the final count over enough shoes, you should be able to figure out if the shoes are rigged, although I doubt it - too much risk for minimal reward on the casino's part.
  #5  
Old March 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Sucker Sucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetobet View Post
What Indian casino u play at? Hard rock in Florida refuses to show you the cards even when they close the table.
Of COURSE they're not gonna show you the cards when they close the table. It's when they OPEN the table. They spread out new cards on the table, the dealer inspects them for missing or duplicate cards, flips them over and inspects the backs for defects; washes them, gives them a quick shuffle; and places them in the machine for final shuffle (except for the tables with no shuffler, of course). I've been to all three Seminole Hard Rocks many times and they ALL use this procedure when opening their tables. Unless they've changed since I was last there 3 mo ago, but I seriously doubt it.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 08:54 PM
onetobet onetobet is offline
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They dont show you cards anymore they only count to make sure they are all there. They never flip them over. They say if card is missing that the shufflemaster machine will t ell them.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 02:44 AM
Blue Efficacy Blue Efficacy is offline
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This is true, look on the shufflemaster, on a 6 deck table mid shuffle it will say something along the lines of "312 cards 50% complete." These machines are programmed to ensure all cards are there.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 12:16 PM
itsedmondfoo itsedmondfoo is offline
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Thanks for the input guys. I go to Jackson Rancheria in Norcal. I guess I was just paranoid since i've been losing quite a lot lately.
  #9  
Old March 13th, 2010, 01:38 PM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucker View Post
...Personally, I think you're wasting your time even thinking about this. Even the Indian casinos all have some sort of gaming board that oversees the operations. To think that they would risk it all on such a small gain is almost ludicrous.
The "tribal gaming commission" does not operate independently from the operators of the casino, so it's oversight cannot be trusted if the casino has made a decision to cheat. The places I play all fan the cards, so it's moot there, and it is indeed very easy to become deluded by extreme losing sessions so cheating should be one of the last things to consider, not one of the first.

Still, there have most definitely been casino cheating incidents in IJ's and if a casino is not fanning the cards you cannot discount the possibility of a short shoe. Casino minds are pathological and there are managers who would do it as much for the satisfaction of doing it as for the profit, which they might not even have the mathematical skills to quantify.

Far worse than any IJ is a casino cruise ship- not a big line but one of those three-hour tour scows that are nothing but a casino.
 

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