Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #1  
Old March 19th, 2010, 08:54 PM
tribute's Avatar
tribute tribute is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 502
Default Blackjack vs Texas Holdem'

After playing blackjack for many years, I am considering taking some time off to play some casino poker. Lately my Friday nights have centered around poker and pizza with friends at home which is fueling my desire to play for "real". My question is this: Regarding winning expectations, do I stand a better chance at poker than blackjack? I know that, for the experienced player, blackjack ranks above all other games when house advantage is calculated. Will a good poker player have more success than a good BJ player?
  #2  
Old March 20th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Sucker Sucker is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,504
Default

A GOOD poker player will usually have pretty close to the same degree of success as a GOOD card counter.

An EXPERT poker player will usually have a MUCH higher success rate than even an EXPERT card counter.
  #3  
Old March 20th, 2010, 02:41 AM
Guynoire Guynoire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 252
Default

Why not play both?
  #4  
Old March 20th, 2010, 11:45 AM
1357111317 1357111317 is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 579
Default

It is kind of like this. Blackjack is a tough game that isn't too hard to get good at. Poker is an easy game that is tough to get good at.

When it comes to comparing risk and reward, Poker is a much better game but the learning curve is a lot steeper.

The one good thing about poker though, No heat.
  #5  
Old March 20th, 2010, 06:30 PM
blackjack avenger's Avatar
blackjack avenger blackjack avenger is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,267
Default My Understanding

From a lot of blackjack experience I know bj is like assembly line work, you put in the time and you earn $.

My limited poker experience suggests poker is more like chess, it is a learned skill that takes time.

One can play poker online and sit at home. Multiple tables can add to the EV.

For the most part bj you must travel.
  #6  
Old March 20th, 2010, 06:46 PM
blackjack avenger's Avatar
blackjack avenger blackjack avenger is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,267
Default Opportunity Costs

If one is already making money playing game A and are considering learning game B there are opportunity costs to consider.

Is there time taken away from your money making game while you learn the new game?

Do you lose money while you learn the new game?

Does losing money hurt your ability to survive in the money making game?

An example:
A counter is making $20 an hour
He decides to take up poker
He will probably play low stakes while learning and he may lose slightly while learning.
If he now splits his time between poker and bj his EV is cut by half not counting any poker losses.

Of course if he does not lose time playing his money making game then things are quite different, but why not just play the money making game more if possible.

If the money making game is not always available then free time could be used to pursue other investments.

Things to consider
  #7  
Old March 21st, 2010, 11:56 AM
Canceler's Avatar
Canceler Canceler is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,625
Default I can be a little slow sometimes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribute View Post
After playing blackjack for many years, I am considering taking some time off to play some casino poker.
I, too, thought this would a good idea. So I didn't play any BJ at all for 15 months, to give my full attention to poker. Recently it occurred to me that I could use BJ winnings to offset my poker losses, so I started playing BJ again. I wish I would have thought of that much sooner.
  #8  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:27 AM
fubster fubster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucker View Post
A GOOD poker player will usually have pretty close to the same degree of success as a GOOD card counter.

An EXPERT poker player will usually have a MUCH higher success rate than even an EXPERT card counter.
this is HIGHLY dependent on a huge number of different factors. generally this is probably correct, but mostly because you have the opportunity to wager more money with an edge than you do at BJ (mostly)
  #9  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:44 AM
fubster fubster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 263
Default

my honest advice? you guys (i assume) are already winning at blackjack... stick with that.

poker is a very different beast. the learning curve (especially today) is VERY steep, and i would honestly not recommend it as a way to generate income. this is coming from someone who earns >80% of his income from poker.

live poker can be lots of fun (unless you're me, every time i play live i want to take a drill press to my skull). if you really want to get better at the game, go for it! it's a helluva lot of fun and can definitely be profitable. i've played live for years, it's how i got my start in gambling after i realized i sucked at pool (no money pool hustling everyone's solid*). it took me a long long time of brutal breakeven stretches, horrible downswings, and talented players shouting at me and telling me how ****ing horrible at poker i was before i became a solid winner.

i play almost exclusively online now, and in all my (winning) career i have yet to see a 2/5 live game that i can't absolutely crush. the money's there, but it's not easy to figure out how to grip on all dem pretty little chips.

if you REALLY want to learn poker, you'd better be ready to buckle the **** down and accept the fact that (sorry, but it's probably true) you suck at poker right now. but hey, that's okay. it's a very hard game to master. i mean VERY hard.

truth be told, i only realized how tough it is to have a proper logical framework for approaching the game after i started (kinda) coaching lonesome gambler at poker. he's got a sick good mindset and he's definitely able to beat the games that he's playing now. no doubt he could have easily done that without my help, but honestly -- and i'm not trying to be a dick or anything -- without a leg-up from someone who has already established themselves as a solid +EV poker player, the learning curve is astonishing.

now with all that said, i've come to this forum because i want to expand my horizons. i need the whole "yelling at me and telling me how much of a retard" thing with AP that i was lucky enough to have as a fledgling poker player.

if there's anyone who wants help with their poker game, by all means ask me. i'm not the best player in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but i do well for myself, and i'd like to think that i'm able to help others.

so please, if anyone really wants help with poker, PM me or start a thread or something.

would be nice if people opened up a bit to me in terms of AP that goes a bit, dare i say, "beyond" in exchange... a man can dream, right?

*pretty sure only one person here will get that reference
  #10  
Old April 14th, 2010, 01:25 PM
callipygian callipygian is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,853
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fubster View Post
my honest advice? you guys (i assume) are already winning at blackjack... stick with that.
I disagree.

If you play a very basic game of blackjack, let's say one that someone reasonably intelligent could pick up in a few hours, EV = +0.01, SD = 2.5, your SCORE is 16.

If you play a very basic game of limit Hold'Em SSHE-style, EV = +0.03 (1 BB/hr), SD = 2.5 (15 BB/hr). Accounting for the fact that you only get 1/3 the number of hands in at poker that you would at blackjack, the equivalent SCORE is 59. Even if you can only win 0.5 BB/hr (EV = +0.017), the equivalent SCORE is still 15, with none of the stress of heat.

Now, the big advantage of blackjack is in the scaling. When you move up from $5 units to $50 units in blackjack, the basic play is exactly the same. You'll need to be more discreet, but basically whatever you do in the lower level can be scaled up to the higher level. In poker, that is most certainly not the case - when you move up from $3/$6 to $30/$60, there's a huge skill jump, and very few people can manage +1 BB/hr win rates at the higher levels.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 AM.


Forum Software vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2011 Bayview Strategies LLC