Weird Way to Deter a Counter

WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
So I'm counting at this casino and I was being a little obvious I guess. It never was a problem before at this place, but they were not as crowded so I guess I was given more attention than usual. Anyway the pit boss walks over to the table and I expect him to say something to the effect of "I need to speak with you after this hand," or "I cant let you play here anymore."

Instead he announces that the table will go from a $3 min to a $25 min after the shoe ends. This is unheard of at this place because it is in a poor neighborhood and doesn't fit the clientele at all. Sure enough after our shoe finishes he switches it to a $25 min. I sit there to see how this will play out at this joint. The other patrons at the table were really pissed off and kinda shocked. Eventually the table just went dead and since my bankroll cannot afford a $25 min right now I just got up and left.

I was kinda baffled by the casino's move. It was obviously an attempt to make me feel uncomfortable, but is it really worth upsetting the other customers? Why not just ask me to leave?
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
It is just bad 'pit-crittering'. :laugh: But it happens all the time. Earlier this year I was playing a $25 table, late at nite at a big house on the lower end of the strip. I was spreading my usual green to black, while the two other players at the table were both playing black. I mistakenly thought these two might buy me a bit of cover, so stayed a little longer than I normally would have, but after a pretty good shoe (high count), the pit guy comes over and tells the dealer to cut the shoe in half. Not a whisper. Loud enough for everyone to hear, while looking directly at me. The two ploppies, who have no idea what is going on, complain, and when those complaints fall on deaf ears, both gather up there chips and walk away. One walked straight out the door without even cashing out. I play 1 hand of the new shoe, just for effect, then gather my chips and leave.

The pit guy has a rather pleased smirk on his face and I am sure he reported to his supervisor that he drove out a counter, which he did indeed do. :rolleyes: Problem was, my EV was in the neighborhood of $50 per hour. The two other players, by my quick calulations were wagering about $32,000 per hour. Since one guy wasn't even playing BS very well, I would conservatively say the house edge was 1%. So they lost $320 an hour, in order to save $50 an hour. :eek: I wonder if that made it into his report. :laugh:
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
kewljason said:
So they lost $320 an hour, in order to save $50 an hour. :eek: I wonder if that made it into his report. :laugh:
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Yeah, but they drove out an AP. That's the important part! Sheesh, these guys are so stupid, it's pathetic.

I had a similar thing happen to me at the Borg a few years ago. I got half shoed. One other guy at the table, betting chunky black, goes ballistic on the PC, and all he could say was, "Sir, it's an upper management decision."

BTW, I don't like being the low bettor at a table with a bunch of black chippers. In my experience, tables like this are watched a little more closely, and you may get picked up by accident as they are watching someone else.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#4
#4
WABJ11 said:
So I'm counting at this casino and I was being a little obvious I guess. It never was a problem before at this place, but they were not as crowded so I guess I was given more attention than usual. Anyway the pit boss walks over to the table and I expect him to say something to the effect of "I need to speak with you after this hand," or "I cant let you play here anymore."

Instead he announces that the table will go from a $3 min to a $25 min after the shoe ends. This is unheard of at this place because it is in a poor neighborhood and doesn't fit the clientele at all. Sure enough after our shoe finishes he switches it to a $25 min. I sit there to see how this will play out at this joint. The other patrons at the table were really pissed off and kinda shocked. Eventually the table just went dead and since my bankroll cannot afford a $25 min right now I just got up and left.

I was kinda baffled by the casino's move. It was obviously an attempt to make me feel uncomfortable, but is it really worth upsetting the other customers? Why not just ask me to leave?
Click to expand...
Thinking outside the box, maybe he saw you as a high roller and wanted to do you a favor by driving all the $3 betters away from the table. I've been offered a higher min as a courtesy many times to keep the riff-raff away, by PC's who had no idea I was the worst riff-raff of them all. Sometimes I take it, sometimes I don't, depending on a lot of variables.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
WABJ11 said:
So I'm counting at this casino and I was being a little obvious I guess. It never was a problem before at this place, but they were not as crowded so I guess I was given more attention than usual. Anyway the pit boss walks over to the table and I expect him to say something to the effect of "I need to speak with you after this hand," or "I cant let you play here anymore."

Instead he announces that the table will go from a $3 min to a $25 min after the shoe ends. This is unheard of at this place because it is in a poor neighborhood and doesn't fit the clientele at all. Sure enough after our shoe finishes he switches it to a $25 min. I sit there to see how this will play out at this joint. The other patrons at the table were really pissed off and kinda shocked. Eventually the table just went dead and since my bankroll cannot afford a $25 min right now I just got up and left.

I was kinda baffled by the casino's move. It was obviously an attempt to make me feel uncomfortable, but is it really worth upsetting the other customers? Why not just ask me to leave?
Click to expand...
This doesn't quite sound like heat to me. Could have been, but maybe not.
 
N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Not against you

WABJ11 said:
So I'm counting at this casino and I was being a little obvious I guess. It never was a problem before at this place, but they were not as crowded so I guess I was given more attention than usual. Anyway the pit boss walks over to the table and I expect him to say something to the effect of "I need to speak with you after this hand," or "I cant let you play here anymore."

Instead he announces that the table will go from a $3 min to a $25 min after the shoe ends. This is unheard of at this place because it is in a poor neighborhood and doesn't fit the clientele at all. Sure enough after our shoe finishes he switches it to a $25 min. I sit there to see how this will play out at this joint. The other patrons at the table were really pissed off and kinda shocked. Eventually the table just went dead and since my bankroll cannot afford a $25 min right now I just got up and left.

I was kinda baffled by the casino's move. It was obviously an attempt to make me feel uncomfortable, but is it really worth upsetting the other customers? Why not just ask me to leave?
Click to expand...
This is no way any heat. You are exaggerating, pampering yourself. If he has to deter you. He would have raised minimum only for you, or grandfather other plops but you. Half-shoe is another simple/hassle free tactic.

Possible reason:
  • He want to close the table assuming no green chipper is playing.
  • HR is waiting and requested a heads up 25 table.

I've requested empty 25 table several times in small places having default 5min bet. Pit mostly usually raised the minimum to avoid future plops and grandfather/redirect existing plops to other tables to give me heads up play.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
kewljason said:
It is just bad 'pit-crittering'. :laugh: But it happens all the time. Earlier this year I was playing a $25 table, late at nite at a big house on the lower end of the strip. I was spreading my usual green to black, while the two other players at the table were both playing black. I mistakenly thought these two might buy me a bit of cover, so stayed a little longer than I normally would have, but after a pretty good shoe (high count), the pit guy comes over and tells the dealer to cut the shoe in half. Not a whisper. Loud enough for everyone to hear, while looking directly at me. The two ploppies, who have no idea what is going on, complain, and when those complaints fall on deaf ears, both gather up there chips and walk away. One walked straight out the door without even cashing out. I play 1 hand of the new shoe, just for effect, then gather my chips and leave.

The pit guy has a rather pleased smirk on his face and I am sure he reported to his supervisor that he drove out a counter, which he did indeed do. :rolleyes: Problem was, my EV was in the neighborhood of $50 per hour. The two other players, by my quick calulations were wagering about $32,000 per hour. Since one guy wasn't even playing BS very well, I would conservatively say the house edge was 1%. So they lost $320 an hour, in order to save $50 an hour. :eek: I wonder if that made it into his report. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Lower end of the strip, huh? Could have been the first place that ever backed me off. I was playing DD and spreading to 4 or 5 units. I was down $500. As the count went positive, I pushed out 4 units as I recall, and immediately, if not sooner, the PC walks over and tell me, "Sir, you can't play blackjack here anymore. You can play any other game in the casino, but not blackjack." As luck would have it, I hung around, played a little VP, got lucky and won $500. Believe me, I don't care to play in that sweat box ever again, and I tell my friends (non-counter friends) to avoid it as well. I also wrote the management a letter telling them how embarrassed I was that I was stopped from playing and treated like a common cheat. Blah, blah blah... Oh! The indignation and sheer chutzpah of a card counter scorned! :laugh:

Actually I was quite happy about this incident. It was my first back off, my red badge of courage. :)
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
NightStalker said:
This is no way any heat. You are exaggerating, pampering yourself. If he has to deter you. He would have raised minimum only for you, or grandfather other plops but you. Half-shoe is another simple/hassle free tactic.

Possible reason:
  • He want to close the table assuming no green chipper is playing.
  • HR is waiting and requested a heads up 25 table.

I've requested empty 25 table several times in small places having default 5min bet. Pit mostly usually raised the minimum to avoid future plops and grandfather/redirect existing plops to other tables to give me heads up play.
Click to expand...
Yeah I thought about this being the case. But shortly before all of this occurred I requested a shuffle since they use an ASM, and the pit said no. This place never, and I mean never, declines a shuffle especially if the machine is ready.
 
N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
That's not a good sign

WABJ11 said:
Yeah I thought about this being the case. But shortly before all of this occurred I requested a shuffle since they use an ASM, and the pit said no. This place never, and I mean never, declines a shuffle especially if the machine is ready.
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to quit session and avoid place for a month.. I've been denied the shuffle request multiple times and only because they know my game.. Better to give them some rest.
 
P

P1NSTR1PEZ

Member
#10
#10
OP I've had the min raised all of a sudden at my tables, usually you should be grandfathered in if its something like a wide table change. Your situation sounds fishy, I'd be pissed.
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
I was pissed but didn't wanna draw to much attention to my self at the time. I guess it doesn't matter now cause they asked me "not to play any of their blackjack" games last night.
 
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