Shinnig some light on those Shuffle Machines

#1
The manufactures of the shuffle machines claim that the shuffle that occurs inside that black box is entirely random. I disagree and here's why.

Some time back I got my hands on a video of the inner workings of a Shuffle Master (don't recall the model number). It was the two sets of decks style, one would be shuffling while the other was in use. I was able run the video at various speeds, stop and reverse it at any point.

Here's how it works.
There are three chambers with elevating floors in each chamber. The machine opens and the dealer places the decks in the middle chamber which is the only one exposed. The door closes and the magic begins.

First the two outside chamber floors rise to the top.
The middle floor starts rising, as it raises it starts depositing cards in the left chamber (in effect reverse stacking). When half the deck is in the left chamber it switches and starts reverse stacking into the right chamber. While this action is happening,
The two outside floors are lowering and the center is rising in coordination.
When half the deck is in the left chamber and the other half is in the right, the two outside chamber floors start to raise alternately dumping cards back into the center while that floor is lowering until all the cards are back in the center.
In effect this action is exactly the same as if someone cut the cards in half and riffled the entire six decks together in one action. The above action is repeated 7 times. So if you took six decks, cut them in half and riffled them 7 times you get the same result.
The manufacturer of the machine claims that the number of cards that are dumped into the center chamber from each side is random therefore the shuffle is random. Here’s where I disagree.
After watching this video several hundred times it finally hit me. Every time the two outside chamber floors reached the top they each had two or three cards (every time). If the number of cards dumped from either side was truly random there would be times when there would be a large imbalance of cards in the outside chambers when they reached the top. This tells me that it’s not random at all but controlled by some built in algorithm.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#2
This is rather interesting. So what you're saying is that; rather than actually SHUFFLING, in effect, all the machine is doing is breaking the deck in half while only STRIPPING (with small "grabs"), then stripping again to put it back together?
If this is true, then his is the kind of stuff that makes me want to slap myself up side my head and say to myself: "DUH!!!. Of COURSE! Why didn't I think of that?" It also makes me wonder why no one has bankrupted one of these casinos yet. (Or perhaps they HAVE?)

Tell me, are the grabs ALWAYS either one, two, or three cards? Does it ever grab four or more?

BTW, I can think of one possible explanation of how they could have solved the problem that you mentioned about too many cards in the final grab. Perhaps; after the RNG picks the grabs for all 416 cards and before it starts to execute, it does a "look-ahead" to SEE if it's going to come out OK. Then with the aid of a "Do-While" loop or something similar, it throws out the ones that aren't going to come out even, and simply picks another sequence. This would at least allow it to retain SOME semblance of randomness. (You OBVIOUSLY know more about computers than I do; does this theory sound feasible to you?)
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
Where can one see this video? Why didn't you simply forward the video to the proper authorities with a note. How much time would that have taken?
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#4
shadroch said:
Why didn't you simply forward the video to the proper authorities with a note. How much time would that have taken?
It's my understanding that according to Nevada law; EVERY gaming device, including slot machines, must be submitted to the Nevada Gaming Commission for rigorous analysis, before ever being approved for actual deployment onto the gaming floor. This includes all source codes and other pertinent information. This approval process takes months and even YEARS.

I'm guessing that the gaming commission already knows all about this device, and has deemed it's shuffle to be random enough to fit IT'S definition of random.
 
#6
Clarification

It does do a shuffle. Maybe I wasn't clear.
It will do a seven pass shuffle (exactly what is recommended by the
gaming commission to ensure an adequate mix)
What I was saying was the action that mimics the riffle is the action of dumping cards alternately from the left then the right chamber into the center. The number that it dumps is supposed to be random. It may dump 1, 2, 3 or more. The point was that if it was truly random there would sometimes be an imbalance in the count when one of the sides reached the top.
It’s just an observation. I don’t think it can be exploited unless someone had access to the algorithm.
 

BookerPA

Well-Known Member
#7
ArcticInferno said:
If the automatic shuffle machine is flawed by design, I would rather exploit it than ban it.
Agreed, Artic, but I've been exploiting them in a different manner. Since they were introduced at local shop, I've played three short sessions at a CSM table, 20 to 30 mins, flat betting, 10 min, and it's taken me off their radar, which I didn't even realize I was on.
 
#10
shuffle machines.

Jack_Black said:
Hi,
all you shufflers,
thought I might add my observation on CSM's, the machines here in townsville are similar to a ferriis wheel, and the cards are placed by the dealer into the top of the machine, and the machine feeds one at a time the cards into the spokes of the ferris wheel as it turns around, so that each card is separated from one another by these spokes, and the dealer removes each card from the bottom of the machine when dealing;
They cost about $35000, each, and they hold 6 decks.
they appear to do a good job of random shuffling.
elkobar..
 

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#12
No, just imagine some crazy giant handed dealer taking a 6D pile, splitting it into two piles, and just shuffling those two piles 7 times.
 
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