shuffle machines

[leshead]

hi all. i was in the casino today. i had a thought. can you beat these machines? i watched the dealer , seven boxes were filled on the table, every player would get 2-3 hands before the dealer put the cards from the discard tray in to the shuffle machine. so the dealer would play about 1 deck before shuffling. hope your all still with me.
any way using the ko count i heard someone mention that after one deck played the true count would be 4 more than you started with(4 sevens)
so i thought if you watch the first hand, get a count above 4 from what you started with, then would you have the advantage?

sorry im **** at explaining,

wot im sayin is as soon as the cards are placed in the shuffle machine, i backcount, start with 0 using the ko count, if the count go's above 4 after the first round play the next one or two rounds (about one deck played) with the count above 4. untill the dealer puts the cards from the discard tray into the shuffle machine, then start again?

any help or advice on wether this will or could work would be appreciated. cheers players

[Mikeaber]

Pretty much, I think that unless the dealer deals out all but 1 or 1.5 decks from the shuffle machine before stuffing them back in, you are not going to be able to use counting to gain an advantage. You just do not see enough cards out of those available to determine the status of those that have not been dealt.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by Mikeaber

Pretty much, I think that unless the dealer deals out all but 1 or 1.5 decks from the shuffle machine before stuffing them back in, you are not going to be able to use counting to gain an advantage. You just do not see enough cards out of those available to determine the status of those that have not been dealt.

...what you just described is ENTIRELY beatable! Lets not confuse shuffle machines, like the Random Ejection device, with "continuous shuffling machines" ('CSMs') - the former being much more widespread and beatable. zg

[Mikeaber]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

...what you just described is ENTIRELY beatable! Lets not confuse shuffle machines, like the Random Ejection device, with "continuous shuffling machines" ('CSMs') - the former being much more widespread and beatable. zg

He wrote:
<<hi all. i was in the casino today. i had a thought. can you beat these machines? i watched the dealer , seven boxes were filled on the table, every player would get 2-3 hands before the dealer put the cards from the discard tray in to the shuffle machine>>

[zengrifter]

Yes, correct, I mis-read your post! zg

[Mikeaber]

No problem ZG. I tend to speak in the negative and that tends to confuse people. I'm used to dealing with logic in programs and much of that is "not" or "negative" logic....if "this" is not true, then do "that."

Let me restate:

With a constant shuffle machine (CSM) if there are 6 decks in the machine and the dealer is dealing out only 2 or 3 hands to seven people before stuffing the machine with the cards that have been played, then only 1 deck or possibly a little more than 1 deck, out of that 6-deck "shoe" is dealt. That is not enough to predict what is left in the other 4+ decks still in the machine. With a 6D shoe game, it is considered playable if only 1 to 1.5 decks are "cut off". What this means to you is that you simply do not have enough information with the limited number of cards removed from the "deck" to make an informed decision as to the condition of the remaining cards in the machine. They way I understood the game you were asking about, if it consisted of 6 decks total, it would be the same as if the dealer were cutting off at least 4.5 out of the 6 decks!

[leshead]

yeh i suppose i didnt think about it like that, its is like havin the penetration about 20%-25%. thanks for that guys.

[leshead]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

...what you just described is ENTIRELY beatable! Lets not confuse shuffle machines, like the Random Ejection device, with "continuous shuffling machines" ('CSMs') - the former being much more widespread and beatable. zg

what is the difference between the two? and how is the former beatable?

[Mikeaber]

Leshead....I am familiar with CSMs though I have never played at a table using one. I always pass them by. The other machines that ZG made reference to, I'm not sure about (Random Ejection). I've played many times against automatic shufflers like the Shuffle Master. Personally, I prefer a hand shuffled deck. There is time while shuffling to stand up and stretch...however, I'm learning that it is a good thing to do that during play to skip playing hands under certain circumstances.