Insurance on dealer Face

[Mikeaber]

Played at a 6-deck table where the dealer offered insurance and even money when his up-card was a Face. Is there any way to take advantage of this without side-counting Aces? Seems to me to be a sucker-bet but thought I'd ask anyway.

[Cass]

Originally Posted by Mikeaber

Played at a 6-deck table where the dealer offered insurance and even money when his up-card was a Face. Is there any way to take advantage of this without side-counting Aces? Seems to me to be a sucker-bet but thought I'd ask anyway.

The odds of him having a ace would just be too slim. The house Advantage would be huge!

[Sonny]

Just use the same index number you use for regular insurance. It is pretty much the same bet. After all, you are keeping track of the tens and aces together (they are both -1 in Hi-Lo). When you take insurance against the dealer's ace he is just as likely to have another ace in the hole as a ten, but because of the 2:1 payoff the bet is lucrative. It is the same with this. [As a side note, that is why ace-neutral systems often have a higher IC than ace-reckoned systems].

You could use a special side count for this bet, but it wouldn't add much.

This rule will give a BS player an extra 0.07% edge against the casino. It ain't much, but it will be enough to save quite a few of your max bets when the dealer shows a ten. That means a higher EV and lower variance.

-Sonny-

[Mikeaber]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Just use the same index number you use for regular insurance. It is pretty much the same bet. After all, you are keeping track of the tens and aces together (they are both -1 in Hi-Lo). When you take insurance against the dealer's ace he is just as likely to have another ace in the hole as a ten, but because of the 2:1 payoff the bet is lucrative. It is the same with this. [As a side note, that is why ace-neutral systems often have a higher IC than ace-reckoned systems].

You could use a special side count for this bet, but it wouldn't add much.

This rule will give a BS player an extra 0.07% edge against the casino. It ain't much, but it will be enough to save quite a few of your max bets when the dealer shows a ten. That means a higher EV and lower variance.

-Sonny-

I will believe you Sonny though I do not understand it. It would seem to me that the side bet with the Ace showing is much more likely to turn into a Natural than with a Face showing because there are 1/4 as many aces in the deck as face cards.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by Mikeaber

Played at a 6-deck table where the dealer offered insurance and even money when his up-card was a Face. Is there any way to take advantage of this without side-counting Aces? Seems to me to be a sucker-bet but thought I'd ask anyway.

That type of insurance bet has been offered on a few games decades ago, with a pay0ff of 10-1, a still huge house profit. zg

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by Mikeaber

It would seem to me that the side bet with the Ace showing is much more likely to turn into a Natural than with a Face showing because there are 1/4 as many aces in the deck as face cards.

Ah, now I understand. Even though the count is high it is mostly made up of tens, not aces. That is why the ten-up natural is more rare. You’re exactly right about that. Since the ten/non-ten ratio is high from the start then the regular insurance bet becomes profitable occasionally. However, I doubt that the ace density would become high enough to make the bet worthwhile.

-Sonny-

[Mikeaber]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Ah, now I understand. Even though the count is high it is mostly made up of tens, not aces. That is why the ten-up natural is more rare. You’re exactly right about that. Since the ten/non-ten ratio is high from the start then the regular insurance bet becomes profitable occasionally. However, I doubt that the ace density would become high enough to make the bet worthwhile.

-Sonny-

Whew....there for a minute I thought I was losing it! My daughter is in the hospital, probably for a c-section and I'm pretty much a basket case. First Grand Baby. As for the Dealer 10-up Natural, I didn't see anyone taking the bet. The two other guys playing at the table were good BS players but were not APs. More than once, the dealer cocked an eyebrow at me for plays I made that were contrary to BS.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by Mikeaber

Played at a 6-deck table where the dealer offered insurance and even money when his up-card was a Face. Is there any way to take advantage of this without side-counting Aces? Seems to me to be a sucker-bet but thought I'd ask anyway.

This bet should be a crime. Unless they gave you a much better payout if you win.

[bj bob]

Congrats on the baby! Hope all goes well with the delivery. Are you offering insurance bets on boy/girl? Now THAT'S even money! Speaking of which,your game of "reverse" insurance got me to thinking. First, no can do if you have no ace side count. Second,the payout would have to be 10:1(ref:Zg) and you would need to be +1> "rich"(per 1/4 deck) with 1D game,+2>with 2D game.IOW, you could make money on a 1D game if you saw no aces during the first 1/4 of the deck AND the payout was at least 10:1.With 2D game,you would have to have not seen an ace for the first 1/2 deck ect. Hope I explained that well enough.
N.B.Don't let the docs at the hospital catch you counting the fingers and toes of your grandchild.They'll rat you out to the pitboss over at the casino!(Pref. shuffles, you know!)

[Mikeaber]

I didn't have anything to do with the baby...this one anyway...other than help make the Mother (My Daughter!) I'll take you up on that even money "Boy/Girl" bet though. He's a for sure boy!

I really didn't think there was much way to get any advantage off of the Face Up Natural. But, that was the first casino I'd seen even offer Insurance or Even Money on a Face card. I told the dealer that they should forget that bet and start offering surrender. He just laughed. It's the only table in Kansas where the dealer stands on soft 17's and that in itself with all the other "good" rules makes that the best 6D game I've personally played at. I generally avoid 6D if there is anything else available that I can afford to play.

Originally Posted by bj bob

Congrats on the baby! Hope all goes well with the delivery. Are you offering insurance bets on boy/girl? Now THAT'S even money! Speaking of which,your game of "reverse" insurance got me to thinking. First, no can do if you have no ace side count. Second,the payout would have to be 10:1(ref:Zg) and you would need to be +1> "rich"(per 1/4 deck) with 1D game,+2>with 2D game.IOW, you could make money on a 1D game if you saw no aces during the first 1/4 of the deck AND the payout was at least 10:1.With 2D game,you would have to have not seen an ace for the first 1/2 deck ect. Hope I explained that well enough.
N.B.Don't let the docs at the hospital catch you counting the fingers and toes of your grandchild.They'll rat you out to the pitboss over at the casino!(Pref. shuffles, you know!)