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  #11  
Old February 28th, 2011, 02:20 PM
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FLASH1296 FLASH1296 is offline
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For quite some time, I had a S17 DAS [-.19%] DD game where one
dollar ($1) tokes got me not only 90+% pen but a shuffle on negative counts.

I even occasionally went PAST 100% pen with a $2 toke.

A small rural casino in a profoundly poor corner of the U.S.A.
Sadly, the casino went to a fixed 50% pen' nearly a year ago.
  #12  
Old February 28th, 2011, 06:22 PM
alwayssplitaces alwayssplitaces is offline
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Going over 100% pen is -EV since the count will be the inverse of whatever's on the table if they shuffle the discards. It must be nice to selectively tip at the shuffle point based on the count. But I agree it's a huge tell and a big loss of EV. You would need to bet $100 with a 1% edge, or $50 with a 2% edge to make up the cost of the tip.
  #13  
Old February 28th, 2011, 06:44 PM
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No not Negative e.v. but massively positive.

"Over 100% pen'" occurs when there are just barely enough cards remaining to deal a round
(heads-up in my case); as it may go over 100% as the dealer must draw an extra card or two.

This scenario would only happen if I bought that final hand for a buck. Let's look closer.
With a very positive count and only a few cards remaining, one knows what remains
rather accurately, [using Hi-Opt II with Side-Counted Aces & Sevens]. Also, the mean
cards per hand drops precipitously, as I am extremely unlikely to draw a 3rd card.

The sweetest part of this is that I get to bet with a high T.C. and good estimation of what (few) cards
remain; but the dealer, if in need of additional cards must shuffle the discards, playing at ZERO T.C.

Anyone who thinks that the "numbers" are correct in dictating that $1 tokes are foolhardy
has a great deal to learn about the "facts on the ground" re: casino comportment.
  #14  
Old February 28th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Blue Efficacy Blue Efficacy is offline
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OMG I can't give the dealer a ####### dollar because it will hurt my EV!


If someone is that concerned over a buck or two, why would they place money in a high risk venture like BJ?
  #15  
Old February 28th, 2011, 10:11 PM
horse_johnson horse_johnson is offline
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My local casino offers a game perfectly tailored to my limited BR, and in an attempt to keep that going I tipped quite liberally the last time I was there.

That said, I hated doing it because I oppose tipping those suckers on principle. It's not that I'm a miser who hates tipping. I'm a solid 20%+ tipper at restaurants. But waiters and waitresses aren't part of a scam to destroy the lives of weak-minded and usually poor gambling addicts. Your average BJ dealer is an unattractive, unskilled person who has a ridiculously easy job and can't or won't do anything harder. I know the economy is poor, but they choose to work for evil people. They choose to take a job that has a negative effect on society. And I choose not to lift a finger to help them unless, of course, there's something in it for me.
  #16  
Old February 28th, 2011, 10:20 PM
Blue Efficacy Blue Efficacy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horse_johnson View Post
My local casino offers a game perfectly tailored to my limited BR, and in an attempt to keep that going I tipped quite liberally the last time I was there.

That said, I hated doing it because I oppose tipping those suckers on principle. It's not that I'm a miser who hates tipping. I'm a solid 20%+ tipper at restaurants. But waiters and waitresses aren't part of a scam to destroy the lives of weak-minded and usually poor gambling addicts. Your average BJ dealer is an unattractive, unskilled person who has a ridiculously easy job and can't or won't do anything harder. I know the economy is poor, but they choose to work for evil people. They choose to take a job that has a negative effect on society. And I choose not to lift a finger to help them unless, of course, there's something in it for me.
Being a BJ dealer isn't as easy as it looks.
Also, in my experience their level of attractiveness and skill is all over the map.
You take the casino away from the gambling addict, he will waste his money somewhere else.
Most blackjack dealers don't go to work with the intent to destroy lives.
  #17  
Old March 1st, 2011, 05:59 AM
The Chaperone The Chaperone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horse_johnson View Post
My local casino offers a game perfectly tailored to my limited BR, and in an attempt to keep that going I tipped quite liberally the last time I was there.

That said, I hated doing it because I oppose tipping those suckers on principle. It's not that I'm a miser who hates tipping. I'm a solid 20%+ tipper at restaurants. But waiters and waitresses aren't part of a scam to destroy the lives of weak-minded and usually poor gambling addicts. Your average BJ dealer is an unattractive, unskilled person who has a ridiculously easy job and can't or won't do anything harder. I know the economy is poor, but they choose to work for evil people. They choose to take a job that has a negative effect on society. And I choose not to lift a finger to help them unless, of course, there's something in it for me.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
  #18  
Old March 1st, 2011, 06:12 AM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horse_johnson View Post
My local casino offers a game perfectly tailored to my limited BR, and in an attempt to keep that going I tipped quite liberally the last time I was there.

That said, I hated doing it because I oppose tipping those suckers on principle. It's not that I'm a miser who hates tipping. I'm a solid 20%+ tipper at restaurants. But waiters and waitresses aren't part of a scam to destroy the lives of weak-minded and usually poor gambling addicts. Your average BJ dealer is an unattractive, unskilled person who has a ridiculously easy job and can't or won't do anything harder. I know the economy is poor, but they choose to work for evil people. They choose to take a job that has a negative effect on society. And I choose not to lift a finger to help them unless, of course, there's something in it for me.


Well said.

CP
  #19  
Old March 1st, 2011, 06:49 AM
blackjackomaha blackjackomaha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horse_johnson View Post
My local casino offers a game perfectly tailored to my limited BR, and in an attempt to keep that going I tipped quite liberally the last time I was there.

That said, I hated doing it because I oppose tipping those suckers on principle. It's not that I'm a miser who hates tipping. I'm a solid 20%+ tipper at restaurants. But waiters and waitresses aren't part of a scam to destroy the lives of weak-minded and usually poor gambling addicts. Your average BJ dealer is an unattractive, unskilled person who has a ridiculously easy job and can't or won't do anything harder. I know the economy is poor, but they choose to work for evil people. They choose to take a job that has a negative effect on society. And I choose not to lift a finger to help them unless, of course, there's something in it for me.
Agreed

After the first toke to "test the waters," I will not toke anymore unless there is some sort of pay off. However, once the dealer has shown he/she is willing to help through various means, small, strategic tokes help keep the game better than average.

It gets even better when a ploppy joins and tokes pinks/reds and I don't have to toke the rest of the night and take advantage of the continued rewards.
  #20  
Old March 1st, 2011, 08:55 AM
Shoofly Shoofly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjackomaha View Post
After the first toke to "test the waters," I will not toke anymore unless there is some sort of pay off. However, once the dealer has shown he/she is willing to help through various means, small, strategic tokes help keep the game better than average.
This appears to be treading very close to collusion. Better watch that.
 

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