Got half shoed in AC

I was playing blackjack at Showboat tonight after crushing the fish in poker earlier (Mardi Gras at a Mardi Gras themed casino = lots of fishies). I'm wonging out at -2 and spreading 10-2x75, winning a little. Then someone joins my table, presents his (or someone else's) diamond card, and starts betting $100 after the shuffle. I notice he's betting with the count. He bet the table max when the true count shot up to +10, and he was winning almost every big bet (and so was I) since the dealer busted 6 times in a row in this monster count. The count went down and both of us reduce our bets. The next shoe, the pit boss (who hadn't been paying much attention to me for the hour I had been playing before the whale joined) places the cut card at about 3 decks in, so less than 50% pen! I play a positive progression system while the pit boss is staring at the table, while he is still mostly flat betting $50 and raising up to $200 sometimes (I decided not to count that shoe). They shuffle rather quickly and he stays for the next shoe, and I continue my progression which is working out well thanks to good variance. The ploppies asked why they shuffled so frequently, and the pit boss did not answer. Then the whale leaves, and the pit boss goes away, and penetration is back to normal. I count the next shoe, then leave for the night.

I just hope I didn't get a black mark on my Harrah's card because of the half shoe tonight. I did not even notice the pit boss watching my table during the first shoe the whale was playing, and I was only betting a max of $150. The fact that they didn't keep the half shoe after the whale left is a good sign for me. But I'm afraid that they'll look at the surveillance video and notice me counting, and that would kill my reputation at Harrah's. I still have comps from tonight's play on my account. I have a comped room at the Rio in Vegas booked for next week, and it would suck if they revoke it. At least I won enough tonight to pay for the room if my comp is revoked. I guess my objective is that I should not put all my eggs in one basket, and try to get comped rooms in other places too.

I've been getting away with counting at Harrah's properties for over 2 years (and I've been playing very often at Harrah's Chester where the rules are excellent). Most likely because I'm a red chipper winning about $15-25 an hour, so paying attention to me would not be worthwhile, especially since my player's card shows that I give the money back at the slots (it's really money that other people lost on slots when I ask them to play on my card).

I'm confused. The guy with the diamond card was betting with the count and making very large bets in positive counts, isn't that why it caught the pit's attention? What did you have to do with that?

Pretty rare for heat from Harrahs pit critters in AC mostly because of the poor penetration they already offer.

I'm curious was this the 6 deckers in the HL room or did this happen on the main floor? PM me if you dont want to say in public.

Had to be the main floor if he was spreading 10-2x75. I wouldn't worry about it. They clearly weren't paying attention to you.

I wonder why the "whale" was on the main floor, playing those crappy 8D H17 games, rather than in the HL area? Other than some "unbeatable" carnival games on the floor, the HL pit is the only place I play at Showboat.

Harrah's A.C. stores are VERY quick to "half-shoe" ~ or ~ limit the betting action of suspected card counters.

They prefer the bet-limitation when they do not want too irritate other players who are betting high.
They announce that YOU (and you alone) may bet $5 to $50, irrespective of the table stakes,
placing a sign indicating the new low stakes; while all others are "grandfathered in" to continue at the posted stakes.

When someone joins your table and bets substantially higher than you are, that is O.K., as you are "playing in his shadow.";
BUT once you see that he is counting, you LEAVE the table, or, better yet, flat bet until the T.C. drops and W A L K.

Note: You do not vacate your seat out of courtesy, but out of self-preservation.

I don't agree with that point of etiquette. A low stakes player has no obligation to defer to a high stakes player in this game. As I see it, the OP was there first and if anyone should have left, it should have been the guy who brought the cloud of heat with him.

In a place like AC where heat is almost a non-issue, if I find myself at a table with another AP my tendency is to stay and play with him, because it raises both our win rates by speeding up the game significantly. Crowding and slowness are the enemy in AC, not heat. Of course I won't Wong in/out on him, and if he leaves I'm not going to follow.

I'm not sure Flash is saying it's a matter of etiquette (though if he is I agree with you). I think he's saying it's a play mistake because you'll get made easier.

Let the Facts Speak For Themselves

Don't sit at a table with a big betting counter, or even a whale. The table gets all the attention.

You did not leave and the CC whale got you half shoed, cut your EV. The whale CC brought you more attention then you needed and hurt your game.

In general if a whale joins your table, leave at the end of the shoe or when count drops. Also, not a bad time to throw bet camo.

Don't ever be afraid to leave, people do it all the time. Often people leave because they are intimidated by the big bettor.

good cards:joker::whip:

This reminds me of the last time I played the only DD in one casino. There was another counter in the table. Normally I play green chips but this one I play $10 to $70 or $15 to $95 when pit boss isn't watching and flat bet if he is watching because I don't want to burn it. (Dealers call out check play on $100 bet most of the times.)The other guy bet $25 to $400. We are in the similar situation like yours. A lot of times we raised to our max bets at the same time. Eventually ploppies began to comment why we did that and win the majority of the times. That made him nervous and he dropped bets gradually like $400 to $150 and occasionally spiked his bet size in negative count while I stick to my strict bet size plan 100% correlated to TC. In the end, he lost all his money and I made money. He did everything right, spread, indexes etc. He lost because he wanted to do cover.

You're totally fine, they didn't make you.

Was the floor's name Joe, blond hair? If so, stay the hell away from him.

Joe is a hard ass.

The table limit on the table must have been $10-$500. And the so called counter was spreading 200$-500$. I believe, It is the Max bet that would have called the attention.

I think their limit is $2000...

It was definitely over $1000, I don't remember exactly what it was.

I still have my comps, so I think I escaped this one. I used to think that counting at the same table as a whale would be good cover, but if the whale is counting too, it's bad. They wouldn't want to back me off if I'm spreading just 10-150 and a whale is flat betting $500 a hand since backing me off might also cause the whale to leave, and the whale loses more than I win.

I think in this case, they didn't want to restrict his bets since he was betting big and they weren't 100% sure he was counting, so they half shoed to see how he would react.

The harrahs properties usually have maxes of 2500.

Harrahs has a max of 2500, but if you play as a refusal you're automatically partially backed off to 1 hand and 1000 max (so use your brain a little.. present a card out of a slot machine)

And I disagree with leaving if there's a whale betting big, as long as it's not a counter "whale". If some guy's flat betting 2 x 2500 at your table, you can spread 10 - 2x500 and get zero attention for your play.

The way the pit looks at it, the table went from 5K in action to 6K in action, not much change.

Or use your brain a lot, and don't do that. A person betting at that level is going to get scrutinized no matter what they bet, and if the demographic info associated with that card doesn't match you, you risk getting into bigger trouble than if you played as a refusal. And if the owner of that card at any recent time happened to have been a crime victim, you are now the prime suspect.

It's Not About the Pit

Where do you think surveillance is watching? Quite possibly the table with the big player. Do you think going 10 to 2X500 will escape their attention? A table that they might be watching anyway?

Whales in the area good, at your table bad!

:joker::whip:
good cards

I agree. Play the next table over.

"Whoops, I found this card in a slot machine and put it in my pocket when I wanted to play that machine, and I accidentally gave you the wrong card"

The owner of that player's card will most likely be the beneficiary of some wonderful comps and he'll have no idea why he's suddenly getting them. I doubt he will ever question why he's getting them.

Until the next time he swipes his card at a slot machine and gets the message "account inactive, please see a representative for 'assistance'". :laugh: