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Old April 14th, 2011, 09:59 AM
Midwestern Midwestern is offline
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Default wonging is socially awkward

so i read the "man this counting stuff is hard thread" this week. excellent thread Easyrhino, love all the detail you put into it.

i went to my local store last night with the intention of wonging-in more. its just a tactic i haven't widely used yet because i've been hesitant to get 'called out' for doing it.

i tried backcounting one or two shoes and, whaddaya know, the dealer is looking right at me " hey we have spots open right here! no need to wait"
and i begrudingly sit down and start playing table min, continuing the count.

i just can't bring myself to be uber-socially awkward and wong at my small casino, even though the bad rules and average 75% pen basically FORCE me to wong to give the game a chance to be at all profitable.

my casino has 4 pits, about 10 tables in each, about 20 bj tables total. last night 2 of those pits were closed and so there were maybe 8 BJ tables of varying minimum.

advice on wonging or how to do it gracefully? i'm pretty sure my home casino, due to poor rules and average pen, will not be my local cash cow, but i really would like to use it as a place for me to hone my skills before i take my blackjack game to other faraway places.
  #2  
Old April 14th, 2011, 10:24 AM
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Southpaw Southpaw is offline
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I am not a back-counter, nor do I claim to be, but when I was first learning the ropes (not too long ago), I used to go to a locale to practice backcouting, so as to get used to how the cards were played out in an actual game (I didn't actually play; their game was ****).

In terms of letting the social awkwardness get to you, don't let it get to you. Try to put on the mindset that you're better than everyone in the casino right now, so what ever they think about you is irrelevant. I never let the awkwardness of AP get to me under the pretext that I wouldn't want to associate with any of the casino employees or degenerate scumbags playing there to begin with.

In terms of how you actually want to go about doing it, the first thing to be mentioned is that you probably won't be able to go unnoticed if you stand there backcounting the first 4 decks of the shoe, no matter how good your act is. After the first few rounds of the shoe you should probably decide if you either want to commit to this shoe or if want to hunt out a fresh shuffle. Try not to stand too close to the table. Good eyes is key here, and it can be really hard to differentiate between 8s, 9s and 10s (non-faces) if the casino has their lights turned up really high--Learn the pip patterns. Spend most of your time not looking at the table. If there is an adjacent table, what you can do is watch one of them 80% of the time, but actually be counting the one that you are only watching for 20% of the time; I.e., use the other table as cover for counting the one you are really interested in. It will be even better if the table you are spending most of your time pretending to watch is non-blackjack (i.e., craps, or a "carny-game"). Designing the casino layout in certain ways can do a lot to discourage backcounters.

In terms of putting off the right demeanor, I really think hanging out in dance clubs / nightclubs a lot has helped me develop the audacity to put myself under the magnifying glass, with no forethought as to what others are going to think.

Best of luck to you,

Spaw
  #3  
Old April 14th, 2011, 10:35 AM
21forme 21forme is offline
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If you get invited to sit and aren't ready, just say something like, "I just had a big loss and want to see how the shoe is." Be creative! IMO, much more important than wonging in, which is usually somewhat conspicuous, is wonging out.
  #4  
Old April 14th, 2011, 11:14 AM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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If you have the skills of an AP, you already are socially awkward, so don't worry about it.
  #5  
Old April 14th, 2011, 11:18 AM
blackjackomaha blackjackomaha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
If you get invited to sit and aren't ready, just say something like, "I just had a big loss and want to see how the shoe is." Be creative! IMO, much more important than wonging in, which is usually somewhat conspicuous, is wonging out.
Agreed. In this case, ploppyisms are your friend.

There are many lines you can use for both wonging in/out.
  #6  
Old April 14th, 2011, 11:19 AM
blackjackomaha blackjackomaha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automatic monkey View Post
if you have the skills of an ap, you already are socially awkward, so don't worry about it.
+1
  #7  
Old April 14th, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Jack_Black Jack_Black is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
If you have the skills of an AP, you already are socially awkward, so don't worry about it.
Oh yea, gambling degenerates, drunken idiots, aren't socially awkward at all. I had a dealer tell me there was an old man who literally pooped his pants at the tables. I guess he was just too addicted to leave the table.

I can't remember how many degenerates have watched me from behind. I remember one degenerate specifically, I thought he was backcounting because he stood there for 5 shoes!!!!

point is APs usually stand out in a casino because they look "all business" or nerdy or just don't plain look like they belong there compared with the party crowd, the retired crowd or the degenerate crowd. almost all AP tactics have a built in ploppy cover ploy. how many ploppies split tens? how many plops hit 17 and get a 4? how many raise their bets wildly? how many stare at the table wondering if they should play or not? how many say "this shoe sucks!" or "this dealer sucks!" and leaves? how many say "i wanna see if this is a good shoe or not before jumping in?"

think like a ploppy, look like a ploppy, act like a ploppy.

Last edited by Jack_Black; April 14th, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
  #8  
Old April 14th, 2011, 11:53 AM
moo321 moo321 is offline
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If they ask if you want to play, just shake your head, mumble, and look away. Seriously, works every time.
  #9  
Old April 14th, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Black View Post
Oh yea, gambling degenerates, drunken idiots, aren't socially awkward at all. I had a dealer tell me there was an old man who literally pooped his pants at the tables. I guess he was just too addicted to leave the table.

I can't remember how many degenerates have watched me from behind. I remember one degenerate specifically, I thought he was backcounting because he stood there for 5 shoes!!!!

point is APs usually stand out in a casino because they look "all business" or nerdy or just don't plain look like they belong there compared with the party crowd, the retired crowd or the degenerate crowd. almost all AP tactics have a built in ploppy cover ploy. how many ploppies split tens? how many plops hit 17 and get a 4? how many raise their bets wildly? how many stare at the table wondering if they should play or not? how many say "this shoe sucks!" or "this dealer sucks!" and leaves? how many say "i wanna see if this is a good shoe or not before jumping in?"

think like a ploppy, look like a ploppy, act like a ploppy.
Oh I stand out. The degenerate gamblers think I'm sick and depraved, and tell me to please go get some help.
  #10  
Old April 14th, 2011, 12:24 PM
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blackjack avenger blackjack avenger is offline
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Default Toughen Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestern View Post
I just can't bring myself to be uber-socially awkward and wong
If you are saying you feel heat, that is one thing. However, civilians watch tables before playing. If you feel awkward you may not have what it takes, nothing personal. Being an AP is not for the timid, at least with large stakes. It's only awkward because you think it is.

If you are playing the same casino for multiple hours you need different strategies:
wong in
quick wong in
wong out
play all
and combos of the above at different counts when a civilian would exit or enter.

Quote:
my casino has 4 pits, about 10 tables in each, about 20 bj tables total. last night 2 of those pits were closed and so there were maybe 8 BJ tables of varying minimum.
20 tables is a lot!
10 tables is a lot!
 

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