Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #1  
Old May 4th, 2011, 04:07 PM
Dyepaintball12's Avatar
Dyepaintball12 Dyepaintball12 is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 1,547
Default Poker players, please explain this to me.

Okay when on-line poker was banned I thought "Wow, that sucks. Well at least they can still play live".

Then someone told me that on-line was great because of the low-limits. I then thought "Oh, that make sense. Well I think most players can afford to still play live."

Now I'm reading on PRO POKER PLAYERS blogs that this is such a huge blow to them and they want to move from Vegas and blah blah

WTF? I understand on-line was convenient, but seriously you can't just switch to live poker? Low limits also exist there!

I'm not trying to be ignorant... I just want to know!!!!


- Dye
  #2  
Old May 4th, 2011, 04:21 PM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 607
Default

Live poker and online poker are two different games.

First: in online poker you can play multiple tables simultaneous. You can specialise in quick decisions which are sub-optimal but fast. But since they are quick, you can play 10 tables at once, raising your total EV per hour.

Second: In live poker you are subject to your tells which are more or less missing in online poker.

Third: With online poker you have much more "tools" available, evaluating your hand and your opponents.
  #3  
Old May 4th, 2011, 04:23 PM
kewljason's Avatar
kewljason kewljason is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,564
Default

Me too! I am not a poker player online or live and am totally not familiar with what is going on. I know the government passed laws a while ago like 2006 or 2007 making it harder for US players to play online with funding accounts and stuff and at that time some online sites stopped accepting US players, but from reading it seems players found a way around that or something. So what changed recently that it has all of the sudden completely dried up?
  #4  
Old May 4th, 2011, 05:52 PM
FLASH1296's Avatar
FLASH1296 FLASH1296 is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Coast, U S A
Posts: 3,749
Send a message via ICQ to FLASH1296 Send a message via AIM to FLASH1296
Default


Perhaps you do not fully understand what "Low Stakes" mean to some players.

Hundreds of thousand of people enjoyed playing for pennies, or nickels and dimes, on-line.

NOT hyperole.

Have you seen a legal poker room where you can play $1 - $2 "Limit Poker" ?

Nope.
  #5  
Old May 4th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Midwestern Midwestern is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Riviera
Posts: 220
Default

What just happened to online poker in the US was DEVASTATING to online poker players. Bankrolls of 5, 6, and 7 figures are completely frozen and players are freaking out as to whether they will ever see that money ever again. To put it in terms of blackjack, assume that an AP player puts in thousands of hours at his local casino, and instead of cashing out, keeps his BR in high denomination chips. Well, what if in one fell swoop, this casino refused to honor cash-outs of chips in play because of suspected chip counterfeiting. The player would be stuck holding worthless chips and he would have wasted many hours of his life. Moreover, his future career could be in jeopardy.

(end example)

The whole reason behind the site shutdowns is because of money laundering. Any Joe Schmoe could sign up, deposit money via e-check, and play poker with any other Joe Schmoe. The online sites had no due diligence on who their customers were so anyone could sign up. Any money was good money.

Suppose Druglord X buys in for $10 million dollars at a high-limit poker table and tells his friend in the US, a Mule, to play at the same table with him. Druglord purposely loses all of his chips over time to the Mule. The mule can then cash out his winnings legally as gambling revenue. This is money laundering and that is why the poker sites are shut down.

As far as the live experience vs online experience....well live poker can be very slow, where you may only see 15 hands an hour. would you consider your time as an AP well spent if you went from one dealer who could deal 100 hands an hour to play BJ at a dealer that only dealt 15 hands an hour? I wouldnt...
Online, expert players could properly play 6 + tables of poker. More tables meant more hands played, more variance, and hence more money.

the hard part about the whole situation is that there are legitimate grinders out there with 6-figure bankrolls out there making a living with online poker that are now out of a job and out of their bankroll. yikes!
  #6  
Old May 4th, 2011, 06:42 PM
FLASH1296's Avatar
FLASH1296 FLASH1296 is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Coast, U S A
Posts: 3,749
Send a message via ICQ to FLASH1296 Send a message via AIM to FLASH1296
Default

Midwestern,

I agree with what you have posted re: money laundering.

Just as an aside brick and mortar poker rooms ordinarily deal 30 hands per hour.

A dealer pushing the action along slower than that hurts himself re: the gross tokes that he gets, as in most rooms, dealers "keep their own"
  #7  
Old May 4th, 2011, 07:00 PM
flyingwind's Avatar
flyingwind flyingwind is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 425
Default

If I were in another country, such as Japan, China, Canada, Thailand, or Singapore, can I deposit or withdraw money from poker websites? Which websites are still playable now?
  #8  
Old May 4th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Canceler's Avatar
Canceler Canceler is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kewljason View Post
So what changed recently that it has all of the sudden completely dried up?
On April 15th, for some major poker sites, it was this:
Attached Images
 
  #9  
Old May 4th, 2011, 07:10 PM
Lonesome Gambler's Avatar
Lonesome Gambler Lonesome Gambler is offline
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 903
Default

Reasons why online pokers can not just go to a B&M casino and start collecting money:

1. Higher BR requirements. A marginally winning player beating 50NL ($0.25/$0.50 no limit) for 3PTBB/100 who is also playing 8 tables at once (assuming 100 hands/hour, which is somewhat reasonable) for 20 hours a week can make about $25/hr, which ends up to be $500, before counting about $215 in rakeback (assuming 27%RB). So at $715 a week, the 50NL player is making about $35/hr. Similarly, a reasonable enough WR for $2/$5 live NLHE is about $35/hr. The difference? The former is going to call for a BR of 20-30BI ($1000-$1500) to play comfortably. Live, you'll only need 10-15BI, but now you're looking at $5000-$7500. The figures can be even more skewed for skilled online players, who can easily surpass 3PTBB/100.

2. Live poker requires different skills. In online poker, it would be absurd to open-limp with low pocket pairs in a FR game. If you actually end up flopping a set, you will never have the implied odds to pay it off post-flop in order to compensate for all the money wasted when you did not flop the set. Live, the is actually a +EV play and almost a necessary one at that. Most live games at these stakes will have 4 or 5 limpers and the same amount of callers should anyone raise. Profitable live plays would be suicidal online, and many players can't successfully adjust.

I'll make these shorter because I need to start being productive and stop posting on here all night.

3. Rake is significantly higher live than online and there's no rakeback.
4. Travel and time expenses weigh in heavily, depending on the availability of live action.
5. Game speed is excruciatingly slow in comparison, which makes it hard for online players to focus at times. It also means that swings can last a lot longer. And no multi-tabling, of course.

There are more reasons, but these are significant obstacles.

KJ, the UIGEA made it a lot harder to play online, and many sites stopped catering to US players. But sites like FTP, UB/AP, and PS still took US players. It was as easy as loading up money with your VISA card. After 4/15, US players could no longer access their entire bankrolls or play at any real-money tables. Big difference, unfortunately.
  #10  
Old May 4th, 2011, 08:38 PM
fubster fubster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyepaintball12 View Post
Okay when on-line poker was banned I thought "Wow, that sucks. Well at least they can still play live".

Then someone told me that on-line was great because of the low-limits. I then thought "Oh, that make sense. Well I think most players can afford to still play live."

Now I'm reading on PRO POKER PLAYERS blogs that this is such a huge blow to them and they want to move from Vegas and blah blah

WTF? I understand on-line was convenient, but seriously you can't just switch to live poker? Low limits also exist there!

I'm not trying to be ignorant... I just want to know!!!!


- Dye

You're playing 25 hands per hour live as opposed to 1500 or so.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:53 AM.


Forum Software vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2011 Bayview Strategies LLC